Rain Sensor for Elk M1

[sixburg]

I'm new to the Elk M1 having just installed my system a few weeks ago.  I have to say the flexibility of the system is outstanding...and overwhelming.
 
I'm trying to set up rain sensing capability for immediate closure of a roof vent upon rain detection.  I've found this product:  Hydreon RG-11.  Has anyone integrated this with an M1? 
 
I have an M1RB relay board on the M1 to which is attached open and close relays for the vent.  Currently a cloud sensor is successfully handling the opening and closing of the vent upon detection of heavy cloud cover.  The RG-11 is going to be the 2nd line of defense. 
 
Here's where my inexperience comes in.  The RG-11 instructions state:   the relay output of the RG-11 is rated for 24V AC or DC, at 1A. Thus, the RG-11 cannot drive a line voltage (120 VAC) load without an external relay.  The RG-11 requires a low voltage AC or DC supply and may not be directlypowered from the 120 VAC line.  The RG-11 has 5 terminals:  PWR1, PWR2, NC, NO, COM.
 
My question is how to connect this device? 
 
Note:  the equipment inside the vented enclosure is very sensitive to water.  In the event the cloud sensor fails, the RG-11 is the 2nd line of defense since it will react immediately to rain drops.  If this should fail then a Hunter Rain-Clik is the 3rd line of defense.  I've yet to figure out how to wire this in yet either so your expertise here would be useful as well. 
 
Thanks for your help!

 

[wuench]

You would connect it to NC/Com or NO/Com to your zone, configure the zone accordingly, and connect two power wires from the M1's power terminals to the PWR terminals (so 4 wires total) just like you would connect a motion detector.  Assuming that it doesn't draw too much power, if it does draw too much then you'll need to power it separately with a wall wart or other transformer.  You'll have to find out the draw and do your power calc on your M1 to determine if it is over the 1A limit to see if you need a separate power source.  

 

[sixburg]

I have a Hunter Rain-Clik on the way that I believe functions much like the Rainbird.  The problem I anticipate with this is that it's not as immediate as the RG-11, and it stays engaged until it dries out which would limit when I can re-open the vents.  I guess I could write a rule that says if the Rain-Clik is still "secure" and the cloud sensor says it's clear then go ahead and open the vents.  Then the downside is that my Rain-Clik is not a reliable 2nd line of defense against rain since once wet it is out of commission for a while...it's imperative that the vents re-open as soon as the rain is gone. 
 
Even though the RG-11 has a relay is there a way to wire it such that it provides simple contact closure?

 

[RAL]

The RG-11 relay provides a simple contact closure.  Just use the COM/NO terminals and connect them to a zone input and NEG on the M1, and you'll have exactly what you need.   When it rains, the relay NO contact will close, and the M1 will detect it.

 

[sixburg]

Excellent!  Thanks for your help on this.

 

[sixburg]

Thanks for the responses to my question on the Hydreon Rain Sensor. 
 
I still haven't been able to make this thing work with my Elk M1.  Here's what I've done:
 
1- wired to external 12v power source
2- connected to NO and to Elk board zone 16
3- set up in Elk RP as Definition = 25 Water Alarm, Type = Normally Open
4- written a rule that says Whenever Z16 becomes Secure, then activate a task
5- the green LED is lit
 
The task is not activating. 
 
I've tried various definitions like 16-Non Alarm and variations on the rule like Whenever Z16 becomes Not Secure, but nothing has worked. 
 
The dip switches (1-7) are set to 0 0 1 0 1 0 0
 
Any idea where I've gone wrong? 
 
Thanks~

 

[Del91574]

Does the sensor trigger without the M1 connected?
 
Looking at the directions, you should be correct, so either the sensor isn't shorting (NO) or there's a problem with your rule syntax. You wouldn't want a water alarm or any alarm point, just the M1 to see the zone.

 

[sixburg]

Thanks, Cocoonut...
 
I'm not sure how to test whether or not the sensor triggers without the M1 connected.  Do you mean to disconnect it from the board and see if water causes the sensor to change?  Would something happen that I can actually see (the sensor is in a remote location so I could have someone watch it)? 
 
Also, I'll switch it back to "non alarm".  The rule is very simple and appears to be right:
 
WHENEVER Optical Ran Sen (Zn 16) BECOMES SECURE
        THEN ACTIVATE Close Vent (Task 2)
 
Task 2 works just fine when triggered by other events. 

 

[pete_c]

I am guessing that you have already checked the sensitivity adjustments of the device with a VOM.
 
Start testing it using a water spray bottle then maybe your garden hose.
 
You can adjust it such that fog will turn it on.  I would personally validate this function before connecting it to your Elk panel.
 
Here I have two RG-11 rain sensors. 
 
I have used one with a Hobby Boards 1-wire counter.  It is next to a Dallas Rain Tipping bucket using similar.
 
The second one is just used as a rain on and off device.  I do have it adjusted such that it only works when it is raining.
 
 
Rather I have it connected to one RS-232 interface which uses the NO/NC closure for one RG-11 and the rain tipping stuff for the other RG-11.
 
The RG-11 included drawings / documentation show how you can use the device as a rain on and off sensor and a means of emulating a rain tipping bucket and mechanisms of adjusting the hardware.  It does work better for me than my Rainbird rain sensor (that too is connected today).  I never did adjust the Rainbird sensor though.
 

 

 

 

[Del91574]

How is the zone configured in the M1? Any reason why it's NO at the sensor? Resistor?
 
If you have the M1 set as NO and the secure operand, then that might be the problem right there.
 
You need to go simple, make sure the sensor closes when it senses using a meter as Pete alluded to. Disconnect it from the M1 to verify.

 

[sixburg]

The zone on the M1 is configured as non-alarm, normally open. There's no particular reason I chose NO.  I don't know a reason to choose on or the other in my application, but am definitely open to suggestions.  I just want to activate a task if it starts to rain.  The sensor is connected to NO Zone 16 on the M1.  The rule tests whether or not the zone is Secure.  I've done it both ways actually, Secure and Non-Secure and still no activity. 
 
I'll do the simple test you suggest. 
 
Thanks!

 

[Del91574]

Without doing a test, I believe your issue is the conditional "becomes secure". With the sensor NO and the circuit type as open, it'll never become a true condition or become secure because as far as the panel goes.
 
You still need to verify the detector for operation.

 

[sixburg]

Thanks everyone...I got it working!  The setup:
 
Definition = non alarm
Type = normally closed
Sensor is wired to external power supply (12v)
Sensor is wired its NO connection
 
The rule states:  Whenever zone becomes secure then execute task...and it works. 
 
NO, NC, Secure, Non-Secure get all twisted for me! 
 
Thanks, again.
 
-Lloyd

 

[mikefamig]

The problem is that your logic is backwards. With your first configuration of wiring the NO connections on the device to the zone and setting the M1 zone to NO then you should check for Whenever zone becomes not secure to close the vent.
 
When the M1 zone is set to NO then an open contact is considered secure and a closed contact is considered not secure.
 
Mike.

 

[drvnbysound]

I've been looking for something like this for a while, but had only found a different type that couldn't emulate the tipping bucket.