Renovation Suggestions

[shawnc]

I'm sure (and I know) this topic gets discussed. 
 
I was wondering what people suggest I do while the walls will (may be) opened during my upcoming renovation.
 
I am going to add CAT 6 cables everywhere I can think. How many per room? 3? 
 
Every room room in the house has built in speakers... should I replace them or keep them (they are probably from 1996)? The main floor (and patio) ones all run into a central location (I do have to change the unit's location) and I think I'm going to get one of those speaker switchers from monoprice (unless someone else has a better idea). The upstairs bedroom speakers are local to each room. I don't know if I should centralize those, get rid of them completely or just get new speakers.
 
I think I'm going to run CAT 6 for the Security Cameras around the exterior (interior kitchen/family room too??)
 
I am going to be upgrading the ancient alarm system too. I've got an ELK M1G that I need to get installed (if anyone knows anyone who can help me in the Los Angeles area, I would appreciate it). I'm removing an old Westec 5000.
 
I beleive all lighting is being replace and LED units are being installed, however I'm thinking I'd like to keep a few of the standard recepticals so I could put in color changing bulbs (for emergencies/notifications)
 
All CAT 6 cables will run into garage into a server closet (possibly mud room server closet).
 
I'm also thinking of putting "installing" an echo dot right when you walk into the house from the garage..
 
Anways.. I'm just thinking out loud and looking for any tips from the great members of cocoontech!
 
(btw.. contractor is handling the actual remodel stuff like floors etc...)
 
We have an old doorking gate controller which I think I will be replaceing. The doorking also rings our (ancient) panasonic PBX system (Kx-T616?). I'd like to upgrade or change that somehow, I was thinking cool ip phones but my wife hates most phones.
 
We've postponed the renos for over a year but we are ready to get going!
 
 
Sorry for the long post... and thanks!
 
Shawn

 

[dvpvic]

Im a newbie, but an electrician and installer of HA and structured wiring (for a living).
 
I wouldn't do more than 2 drops per a typical room. If you've got an office or any kind of place that might have a printer and more than just a couple of internet devices then do as many drops as you think you'll need.
 
Cat6 is expensive, unless your doing some really high end HD IP camera system cat5e should suffice. Don't get me wrong, I keep adding and upgrading to cat6 around my house to be setup for gig ethernet but I just think its overkill for the Poe cameras.

 

[jon102034050]

This has been discussed about a million times, and there are already tons of great resources on the forums regarding this, but I'll mention the important things:
 
1) conduit everywhere.  specifically, add conduit from server rack to the attic, and from the server rack to each entertainment area.
2) 1 ethernet port in each room at the minimum, at least 2 in each entertainment area.  cat6 was astronomically more expensive for my builder to run, so I elected to go with cat5e and it's been fine for me.  Remember, cat5e can still do gigabit, its just that cat6 has better shielding.
3) 22/4 wiring for door sensors, motions, and garage doors
4) ethernet to each keypad location, as well as an 18/2 and 22/4
5) 1 coax to each entertainment area has been sufficient for me
6) 2 ethernet cables to a ceiling or discreet location where you can hide a wireless AP
7) 18/4 FPL wiring to each smoke detector location (at least 1 per floor)
8) 22/4 wiring to each leak detector (at least a few per floor in my case)
9) Regarding the structured wiring box - depending on what you're going with, I'd recommend at least two 28in ELK cans or a 42in leviton can.
10) doorbell - figure out what you want, then determine wiring to it and how it'll work.  for me, I was able to just use the existing wiring and plug it into an ELK zone 
11) 18/2 (or maybe 22/2?) for speakers connected to the panel.  If you do go with an ELK (and your house is fairly large), I'd recommend at least 1 sp12f per floor.  I didn't put enough of these in my home, and I miss my doorbell all the time.
 
Thats all I can think of for now, hopefully this is whawt you're looking for.

 

[shawnc]

Thanks for the advice. I think the next step I'm going to draw a plan (using your suggestions). There are still things I need to figure out (house audio... someone to install the elk) but i think I'm on the right track.

House phones are actually a tough one, currently there's an old Panasonic PBX system (which works but ancient), and finding something more modern that my wife is going to like seems to be tough. Maybe a mix of IP phones depending on the room.

 

[jon102034050]

Thanks for the advice. I think the next step I'm going to draw a plan (using your suggestions). There are still things I need to figure out (house audio... someone to install the elk) but i think I'm on the right track.

House phones are actually a tough one, currently there's an old Panasonic PBX system (which works but ancient), and finding something more modern that my wife is going to like seems to be tough. Maybe a mix of IP phones depending on the room.

 
Sorry, I unfortunately don't know the 1st thing about house phones.  That's just not something I even considered in my home while building.  What are you planning for house audio?  I ended up wiring 18/4 (if I recall correctly) homeruns to all rooms, except home entertainment areas where I wired it all to an entertainment cabinet next to each room.  This has worked out well for me so far, and I have no issues with it 

 

[42etus]

It sounds like your walls are open. If so, you can't run too much wire. As opposed to what is mentioned above, wire is cheap. Especially when compared to retro work. You will never say to yourself  "gee, I wish I hadn't installed a wire there" .

 

[jon102034050]

It sounds like your walls are open. If so, you can't run too much wire. As opposed to what is mentioned above, wire is cheap. Especially when compared to retro work. You will never say to yourself  "gee, I wish I hadn't installed a wire there" .

 
Second this. Search the forums for other threads like this, compile all suggestions and do them all.  You won't regret it.  

 

[picta]

House phones are actually a tough one, currently there's an old Panasonic PBX system (which works but ancient), and finding something more modern that my wife is going to like seems to be tough. Maybe a mix of IP phones depending on the room.

 
Here using panasonic PBX for house intercom, nothing "modern" comes close to the functionality, but the phones are indeed bulky. You can run cat6 to each room to provision for anything that may come out in the future, and/or use them with your PBX.
 
Also, if you like automated window coverings, run 16/2+22/4 to each window. For very large windows you may need 110V outlet nearby.

 

[Del91574]

Im a newbie, but an electrician and installer of HA and structured wiring (for a living).
 
I wouldn't do more than 2 drops per a typical room. If you've got an office or any kind of place that might have a printer and more than just a couple of internet devices then do as many drops as you think you'll need.
 
Cat6 is expensive, unless your doing some really high end HD IP camera system cat5e should suffice. Don't get me wrong, I keep adding and upgrading to cat6 around my house to be setup for gig ethernet but I just think its overkill for the Poe cameras.

I'm trade and have been for 20 years.
 
Cat 6 is cheap. Not quite as cheap as 5E, but still, we're talking like $25 per 1M putup....trivial. The material cost is going to offset the usage the one time the 5E doesn't meet spec. Remember, we're not just talking about networking here, but items like HDMI or other video over CatX in locations. Even converting the video (DVI, Displayport or other) if needed. HDMI and DVI-D would typically need 2 CatX to be installed....so the need for 2 drops is already exceeded in a typical room (assuming network and/or any other physical connections). 2 drops per room in a typical low end install, sure (network and phone, sure) but anything less is going to get yourself in trouble.

 

[shawnc]

Here using panasonic PBX for house intercom, nothing "modern" comes close to the functionality, but the phones are indeed bulky. You can run cat6 to each room to provision for anything that may come out in the future, and/or use them with your PBX.
 
Also, if you like automated window coverings, run 16/2+22/4 to each window. For very large windows you may need 110V outlet nearby.

 
I do have a panasonic PBX (I may have mentioned it before), however I think I'm going to move towards either an asterix based system (with IP phones) or this Grandstream 6202 system with various IP Phones but probably will lean towards the grandstream ones. I bought a GXV3240 to test out.
 
Thanks for the suggestion on the 16/2+22/4. I will talk to my electrician about that.
 
Now I have to figure out lighting.. 
 
Shawn

 

[shawnc]

It sounds like your walls are open. If so, you can't run too much wire. As opposed to what is mentioned above, wire is cheap. Especially when compared to retro work. You will never say to yourself  "gee, I wish I hadn't installed a wire there" .

 
 
Yeah walls are open (enough to run wire).. and open enough to run enough wire.. I was thinking 4 CAT 6 per room (with a few more added to certain rooms). I may re-run coax to all the rooms or try to move the existing coax to my server closet..  not sure about audio cable yet.. right now there are speakers in every bedroom (not ran to a central location) however all of the other rooms the speaker wire is run to where the old stereo set up was.
 
Shawn

 

[pete_c]

For audio here I mixed the Russound zoned audio and local audio in a subzone a few years back on the second floor.  Originally ran 16/4 and catXX to one wall box (ring) to each location with 2 speakers.  From there ran 16/2 to each speaker location.  Then added an AB switch from same box to a 2 speaker terminal near a local receiver (or AVR).  Master bedroom and bath did two sets and added 5.1 speakers.
 
Originally ran / added coax for satellite and OTA and microphone coaxial cable to extend audio.  Turned the coaxial in to an in house video of sorts injecting signals (using old cable company injectors) to coax.  (IE: kitchen LCD, breakfast nook LCD and laundry room LCD all broadcast same as main family room LCD).  At one time mixed broadband TV, DTV, Dish and OTA but never really watched much TV.
 
Did do stuff via serial wires and converted a few of the catxx over to serial for automation purposes - worked well for me.  IE: original irrigation box with two controllers used catxx for serial connectivity to the mothership.  Changed it over to using network and put the controller and computer inside of the irrigation box (used POE for the little device and old transformer for the solenoid switching).
 
Started here with a chase from the basement (where all the wires were home runned to) to the attic then down to the bedrooms and from the basement to the main floor walls and ceilings.  In the attic built a landing platform of sorts for the chase (I could stand in the attic fine) and put speakers in the hallways such that one pair of in wall speakers lined up with the chase on the 2nd and 1st floor.  Well too built a large access panel on the floor of the second story behind a door and trimmed it such that it looked decorative (framing it) and trimmed to match the home decor. It was all LV cables and not near any electrical conduit nor any of the ductwork.
 
Helped a friend with his LV wiring in a new home build before the drywall was installed.  Here we just ran every type of wire we could think of from the basement to the 2nd floor attic to the bedrooms then just drywalled over it (with no access panels).  Did this on another new home build too years before.
 
Did the wiring running pre painting every room.  IE: electrical was originally configured with single mudplates (metal) over 4X4 boxes and changed these to double mudplates over the 4X4 boxes and then put 4X4 LV rings next to them.  Made for busy walls.  Original obi wan electrician did run two loads from the ceiling fans and one from 1/2 of the duplex outlets to a single box which was a bit busy.
 
Currently redoing telephone wires to cat6 and neatening up patch panel.  Main lines utilize a Panasonic 2-Line telephones; wife likes the older large style phones.  Secondary 2-Lines (#3 and #4 use a Siemens 2 line configuration - low on the WAF as they are small).  Well that and cell phones are off in the house and forwarded to one of the regular lines.  All incoming calls are massaged depending on source.

 

[upstatemike]

Lots of different views on phones and paging here. I have always used Panasonic because it is easy to use loop detection to automate muting and other activities according to an "off hook" in a given room. Wonder how folks who use VOIP get "off hook" info for a given extension into their automation system? Is that something that is generally exposed by the API in asterix (or whatever system) so you can easily trigger events when a certain extension goes off hook?

 

[pete_c]

Here see an "off hook" with the original OP2 Homeseer plugin.  It's one status for all though and I cannot see the individual phone going off hook.  I see the off hook status too on the OmniPro manager software but only one for all.
 
I have though only seen this with the copper line and try it on a voip line.  I am also using the old analog Way2Call devices which I can send a scripted automation event and have it ring phones and do a custom CID.  IE: "front door bell" CID for example.  Mostly though utilize text to speech for this stuff. 

 

[upstatemike]

Off hook for individual extensions is critical for a lot of my integrations. Particularly muting specific Sonos zones without impacting other grouped players or muting a TV only when the phone in that room is in use etc. Can't see moving to VOIP until I can replicate this functionality. Also agree with picta that Panasonic phones are great for paging and intercom. Sometimes you have to be careful when moving forward with new technology that you don't end up losing more than you gain.
 
I guess as far as prewire goes it is not an issue since you would probably home run a Cat5e for each phone extension regardless if you were going to use digital or analog phones.
 
Other things I find extra Cat5/6 runs have been useful for include:
Placing my Insteon controller in a location that is remote from the powerline interface
Providing a long serial connection between my Stargate and a remote computer used to program it
Remote temperature sensors
Future expansion locations for POE IP cameras
With audio baluns to extend Homeseer audio to my central announce amp
Extending a USB port on my office computer to program the PBX and Voice Processor in the basement
Locations where I might want to add additional Elk keypads, IR blasters, WAPs, or other expansions of existing syustems