Routers, and switches, and IP, oh my!

[rfdesq]

Just trying to get a consensus of what people are using for routers/switches now that everything is going IP. By the time you've connected three computers, the M1, the ISY, several touchscreens, several cameras, the refrigerator, the weather station, several not yet available RCS thermostats, etc., etc., you've outgrown the basic Linksys wireless router with 4 ports. It's like prunes, is 24 ports too little and are 48 ports too much. How is everyone preparing and future proofing?

 

[upstatemike]

I have 32 networked devices at this point (only 29 of them are on 24/7) and I just use linksys unmanged switches. My router is the 16 port model with multiple WAN ports for failover. I have a couple of 16 port switches and a bunch of 5 port units at points of concentration like media shelves. No wireless stuff yet.

 

[MikeB]

Just trying to get a consensus of what people are using for routers/switches now that everything is going IP. By the time you've connected three computers, the M1, the ISY, several touchscreens, several cameras, the refrigerator, the weather station, several not yet available RCS thermostats, etc., etc., you've outgrown the basic Linksys wireless router with 4 ports. It's like prunes, is 24 ports too little and are 48 ports too much. How is everyone preparing and future proofing?

You can get routers with up to 8, sometimes 16 ports. Don't think I've seen one with higher than 16.

I use a Linksys RV042 4-port 10/100 router at home, a Dell 16-port gigabit switch for my "important" devices, and an old HP 24-port 10/100 switch for anything that doesn't fit on the Dell.

I typically won't use the switch on my router. I want to make certain my LAN will stay up and running if the router needs to be rebooted for some reason - firmware update, firewall changes, etc...

 

[Spanky]

Keep in mind the security and HA modules going IP in the future. All the security devices will have to use battery backed up routers or switches that auto reboot when they lock up.

I would not trust my current routers to be used for security. They lockup every week or so and I have to cycle power to bring them back to life.

 

[gatchel]

I use a 3Com 24 port router. I got it used and not in working condition. It was still under warranty. It now works fine once it was repaired. All ports are 10/100 and it works well. It is a managed switch but I have not gotten that serious about the setup. It has never locked up since it was installed a years or so ago.

 

[CORT]

Each room in my house (including garage) has at least one Cat5e wire with a corresponding RJ45 wall jack. These wires all home run to the house's wiring closet and land on Leviton Integrated Networks punch down blocks. In this wiring closet (basement) there is a DLink gigabit wired / wireless N router. It has 4 ports. There is also a DLink 16 port gigabit switch. Everything is on an APC uninterruptable power supply. There is another wireless N access point in the office upstairs to give better reception for the upstairs wireless clients. I have capacity for 19 wired and switched devices which is presently enough capacity. Some of the room's in the house with ethernet ports are not plugged in. In the future, if I need all of them plugged in, I will need another switch or hub. I went with all gigabit capable hardware as I envision streaming HD media through the house oneday.

 

[fcwilt]

Hi,

I use a SonicWall TZ180 for my router/firewall and Netgear JGS524 (24 port gigabit) as the central switch. For my whole house audio i use a Netgear JGS516 (16 port gigabit).

Due to poor planning on my part I have had to add a few Netgear GS108 (8 port gigabit) and Netgear GS105 (5 port gigabit) to accommodate additional devices. I don't like doing it but I had little choice and it seems to work okay.

 

[rfdesq]

Thanks to all so far. It looks like several of you have encountered what I am anticipating. I use a Linksys wireless router. Anyone know of the best bang for the buck in a 24 or 48 port switch that works well with Linksys. Ideally, I'd like a 24 that can be hooked up to additional 24 or 48 port switches, with wireless points for the future.

 

[Photon]

Keep in mind the security and HA modules going IP in the future. All the security devices will have to use battery backed up routers or switches that auto reboot when they lock up.

I would not trust my current routers to be used for security. They lockup every week or so and I have to cycle power to bring them back to life.

When the various elements of our security systems are linked by IP, I wonder if we will end up with a separate switch and router to support just those critical devices. Last year I downgraded my router to the D-Link DI-604 I used for years with no problems because my newer router with all the better specs and features needed regular reboots. I have the router, cable modem, and Vonage box on a UPS, but the expansion switch and the gadgets it supports are not on backup power. I think the simpler-is-better concept has a lot to be said for it where reliability is critical. I can imagine security devices going IP, but I don't know that gigabit or QOS will be needed. Well, maybe QOS, but not if those devices are on their own LAN.

 

[Digger]

I have been slowly adding battery backup to almost everything to do with automation, security, and internet. I dont like UPS's for most of this since you are taking 12 Vdc, stepping it up to 120 Vac, and then stepping it back down to 12 Vdc (or less). It is very expensive, inefficient, and could create a lot of noise on your power line.

I was lucky and got a ton of 12/24 Vdc alarm power supplies for free (new in the box) ranging from 3 A to 10 A. My only real expense are batteries and distribution boards for power limiting. I found that you can get deep discharge 12 vdc car/boat batteries (85 Ah) for less than $100 at Costco etc. that can back up a 3 A supply for about 24 hours. They cannot be charged by these power supplies alone since the charge current is basically 600 ma tops. I have a couple good car battery chargers I can use.

A UPS is great for computers, a TV or two etc but low voltage devices are better backed up with these Power Supplies in my opinion.

 

[upstatemike]

I think the logical progression is for security equipment that is typically on an RS485 bus today to be migrated to a "dedicated" LAN. I don't think there will ever bu UL approval for putting life safety devices on an open LAN where other devices could lock up the whole network with a packet storm that delays or prevents notification.

Ideal would be 2 network ports on a panel: 1 for UI devices and non-critical LAN/WAN communication, and 1 for network attached life safety devices using battery backed 12V switch gear and such.

 

[Digger]

I know someone experimenting with 2 LANS in his house. Both are using the same CAT 6 wire (each uses 4 wires). I thought that there could be problems with that but apparently it is working last I heard. I havent talked to him in a while but I think I will to see whats up as its a neat idea.

 

[opie]

Are you talking for your own use or for clients?

With so many home systems going IP based consumer grade gear really isn't adequate to handle all the traffic that video distribution and the like will throw at it. I have had the following products recommended to be by other Integrators that design IP based systems. I have been using the Consumer Grade LinkSys too and will be moving forward with Business Class stuff.

Dell PowerConnect 2700 series switches

D-Link DWL 3200 WAP

Second the SonicWall suggestion from above

Also, take a look at Pakedge, they are business grade but aimed at the CI channel.

I don't have any hand on experience with the above items yet but will in the next few months.

HTH

(BSR Edit: Fixed Link)

 

[MikeB]

Thanks to all so far. It looks like several of you have encountered what I am anticipating. I use a Linksys wireless router. Anyone know of the best bang for the buck in a 24 or 48 port switch that works well with Linksys. Ideally, I'd like a 24 that can be hooked up to additional 24 or 48 port switches, with wireless points for the future.

Any switch can be tied to any other with a simple Cat5 cable. All the ports on most new switches are auto-uplinking, so no special cable is required. The worse case scenario on an older switch would be to either use the marked uplink port to connect to the next switch, or use a crossover cable.

If you like Linksys, stick with them - they make decent switches for the money.

because my newer router with all the better specs and features needed regular reboots.

It always surprises me how many routers are out there that are simply unstable. If I had a router that needed regular reboots, I'd be rebooting it out the door.

Both are using the same CAT 6 wire (each uses 4 wires).

Keep in mind that gigabit requires all 8 wires in a Cat5e/Cat6 cable.

 

[upstatemike]

I don't know about SonicWall. I had one that worked for a couple of years then it just died. The Linksys multi-wan router came from the Cisco side of the house and has lasted better.

In planning for the future I am following these guidelines:

1 assume future implementation of gigabit ethernet, at least for main branches
2 try to wire for easy traffic segmentation
3 use 12 VDC switches when possible to reduce reliance on UPS backup (this may change if POE takes off)
4 don't use the integrated lan ports on the router for critical devices (a router lockup should not crash your network)
5 plan for separate wireless access points rather than a wireless router
6 make sure any router can handle at least 2 WAN connections for failover
7 assume remote switches will be required for high port concentration locations like media rooms

I have used unmanaged switches up to now but going forward any network hardware I buy will be managed.