All,
This is my first post, just registered after a couple of nights reading posts. Let me say first of all, thanks to everyone here for keeping this professional, especially when it comes to opinions about gear and methods of installation. Hopefully I am in the right place.
I am preparing to built a house in central Texas, and would like (among other things) to incorporate lighting control into the mix. After quite a bit of research, and even to the point of buying and installing $1000 worth of UPB products, have decided that a Centralite hardwire system would best fit my bill for the new house. But, I have some reservations regarding some things I have either heard or suspect, and need your feedback and experience.
Here are some general bullets about the house...
4000 sq ft
4 bedroom
4.5 bath
In addition to these rooms...
Study
Home Office
Formal Dining
Formal Living (not that we live formally, just another place to hang out)
Kids Study (not that they study much other than scatter principal of toys)
Attached 3 car garage
Front courtyard
Rear Yard, pool area
Rec room
Electronics...
Russound ComPoint Intercom system... 10 zones
Xantech MRC 88 for 8 zones
A/V receivers for Family room, Rec room, and study
dual DirectTV HD TIVO's
various other audio and video source components
InLine Matrix 8x8 HD switch (ebay for 500 bucks)
HAI or ELK security system that I can do some minor integration with security, lights, and IR control
etc... You get the picture.... Rancho costo mucho, and I am on the edge of what I should afford.
First of all, I really am not that impressed with the UPB stuff that I bought, and I won't bag on any particular brand, but my experience with them is as follows...
1. They take a huge amount of box space and you really have to cram the wires into the box, which makes me nervous.
2. I used the switches that you can change out the functionality and mechanism of the switch itself, and I think it feels "light", sort of hobby grade.
3. A few of the switches don't respond well to a single press.
4. The "scenes" that I programed seem to get crossed. When there are already individual lights on contained in a scene, and subsequently, you try to activate a scene, you get nothing, or an unexpected result like the whole scene turning off.
5. No matter what you think in advance, when you hit a switch or button regarding a light, you expect it to happen. Nothing frustrates more than an unexpected result. Lights are not just for looks, they involve safety functions and everyday living. The UPB comes close, but 9 out of 10 isn't good enough in this department.
Anyway, for these reasons, the UPB has met with resistance from visitors, friends, kids, and the wife. I must admit they don't work the way I had hoped.
So, I have decided on two courses of action for the new house....
1. A Centralite LiteJet 48 system for the main areas, augmented by it's UPB control for rooms such as the kids areas, garage, laundry, etc. The reason for this is I can't keep the light load to less than 48 loads, so I will have to augment with something... the UPB stuff could be added later. Centralite will sell me the 48 and I can put it in and program it with little or no support.
OR
2. A Centralite Elegance system, using however many loads I need just to make everything work the same everywhere, and forego the UPB stuff.
Here are my concerns, and I will label them so you can respond to them individually if you desire...
Concern #1...
The LiteJet 48 system is really just a LiteJet 24 that has 24 extra loads and nothing extra else. This limits me to 30 scenes and I think 32 Keypads (more accurately 192 buttons). 32 Keypads (192 buttons) with only 30 scenes doesn't make much sense to me... If I divided the 48 loads into, say, 8 rooms (or areas), that gives me 6 loads per room, which would do me pretty good for the more public areas, but I am now limited to short of 4 scenes per room. When you figure "transitional" scenes from one area to the next, like from the kitchen to the main hall, you could run out of "scenes" pretty quick, and considering that you need to still control those UPB devices sitting out there in the wings, that gets pretty slim for control options? Thoughts...
Concern #2...
If I go with the Elegance, obviously, there are no real limitations, except for my own budget. OH, and I would also like to hook this thing up myself. I don't really want to run the HV stuff, but the control, hookup, and setup of the LV stuff would be my baby... Does Centralite even allow this??
Concern #3...
Does anybody have a rough guess as to how much more the elegance system would cost?? I was figuring that the Lite Jet 48 at about $5500 for hardware only figures to about $115 per load. (Yikes) UPB at around $80 per load.
Concern #4...
If I am correct, I see each MCP connection point (where the RJ45s hook into the controller) will support 6 buttons each... Then why doesn't centralite offer a 6 button keypad in their "classica" line of keypads. I can't find it anywhere? They do offer it in their "europa" line, but I think the buttons are goofy when they are arrow shaped towards each other, and to a visitor, that can lead to confusion. Heck, I am confused already wondering how I would program those things. The 6 button doesn't have the same basic shape as, say, a 2 button. I would like to program the keypads as much the same in each room as possible... Top button turns something on, bottom button turns everything off. Buttons in between give you different light "shapes". There isn't much mention of their other keypads, which look pretty weak to me. Any programming tips would be great...
Concern #5...
Speaking of keypads, a couple of people on here have stated they thought the Centralite keypads didn't have the "feel" quite right. Anybody care to try to explain what they mean by this... Maybe I just need to order a keypad just to play with it myself...
Concern #6...
Fans... They come in two basic varieties. Vent fans and ceiling fans. I would like to control both with the centralite system, just to make the wall clutter look right. Nothing fancy here. Ceiling fan will either be ON or OFF, no speed control and I don't really want to use a fan board for this purpose. In the case of a vent fan, I would like it to come on when I push the button, and then stay on for a timed period. If I hit the button again, it turns off. If I have 7 vent fans in my house, that is a lot of money to do something a switch timer from Home Depot would do for 15 dollars. Do I need to be so vain that I spend 700 dollars so I don't clutter up the wall in the throne?? For that matter, same thing goes for the ceiling fans everywhere else... 9 ceiling fans plus 7 vent fans takes up 16 loads... yikes. Is that why centralite is trying to sell that fan control board??
Concern #7...
Non dimmable loads.... Motors, outlets (I am in the country, and no electrical inspection), flourescents, etc. The litejet allows you to hook this stuff up and then program it as "non dimmable" load, and it will shoot the full voltage to that device. In the case of the elegance, which I understand is older technology, you are supposed to replace the "phase controlled dimmer relay" with a different realy. How is this actually accomplished, and how much does it cost??
Concern #8...
I live in a very hot, fairly humid climate. My house will be "super" insulated, and as energy effecient as I can make it. The inside air will be fairly low in humidity (very low air exchange rate compared to most homes). Can I mount these relay panels in the garage and keep their heat out of the house, or will centralite throw a fit. The garage will get pretty warm and humid, so that isn't a perfect situation either. How much heat do these panels produce?? If I put them in an equipment closet inside, will that closet get hot?? I have a lot of other equipment I need to put in there too, and none of it wants to be hot either. Cold weather here is not severe, normally no lower than the teens.
Concern #9...
Subcontractors... So far all of the electrical guys I have talked to locally, not one has ever installed a hardwired system. This isn't Southern California and most people here are very simple (I am not a local, nor treated like one). I am of the opinion that this would be much simpler to install than a regular electrical system with conventional switches (especially with lots of 3 and 4 way switches on multiple circuits). When I have talked to any sparky's that are interested in these systems, they start talking about how much they have heard they cost, which irritates me as it isn't their cost or complexity... that is mine to deal with, but they act like they will want a big premium for dealing with something different.... Makes me want to wire it myself, but I don't trust myself quite that much with the HV, so I know I will need to hire the HV done. What language in a contract is different from what a regular electrical contractor should expect, or do I just carefully spec it out to them in GREAT detail???
OK, that is enough. Again, any opinions are greatly appreciated. Please be gentle, though. I have a lot of ownership in my research so far.
Thanks for your comments in advance.
Mark
This is my first post, just registered after a couple of nights reading posts. Let me say first of all, thanks to everyone here for keeping this professional, especially when it comes to opinions about gear and methods of installation. Hopefully I am in the right place.
I am preparing to built a house in central Texas, and would like (among other things) to incorporate lighting control into the mix. After quite a bit of research, and even to the point of buying and installing $1000 worth of UPB products, have decided that a Centralite hardwire system would best fit my bill for the new house. But, I have some reservations regarding some things I have either heard or suspect, and need your feedback and experience.
Here are some general bullets about the house...
4000 sq ft
4 bedroom
4.5 bath
In addition to these rooms...
Study
Home Office
Formal Dining
Formal Living (not that we live formally, just another place to hang out)
Kids Study (not that they study much other than scatter principal of toys)
Attached 3 car garage
Front courtyard
Rear Yard, pool area
Rec room
Electronics...
Russound ComPoint Intercom system... 10 zones
Xantech MRC 88 for 8 zones
A/V receivers for Family room, Rec room, and study
dual DirectTV HD TIVO's
various other audio and video source components
InLine Matrix 8x8 HD switch (ebay for 500 bucks)
HAI or ELK security system that I can do some minor integration with security, lights, and IR control
etc... You get the picture.... Rancho costo mucho, and I am on the edge of what I should afford.
First of all, I really am not that impressed with the UPB stuff that I bought, and I won't bag on any particular brand, but my experience with them is as follows...
1. They take a huge amount of box space and you really have to cram the wires into the box, which makes me nervous.
2. I used the switches that you can change out the functionality and mechanism of the switch itself, and I think it feels "light", sort of hobby grade.
3. A few of the switches don't respond well to a single press.
4. The "scenes" that I programed seem to get crossed. When there are already individual lights on contained in a scene, and subsequently, you try to activate a scene, you get nothing, or an unexpected result like the whole scene turning off.
5. No matter what you think in advance, when you hit a switch or button regarding a light, you expect it to happen. Nothing frustrates more than an unexpected result. Lights are not just for looks, they involve safety functions and everyday living. The UPB comes close, but 9 out of 10 isn't good enough in this department.
Anyway, for these reasons, the UPB has met with resistance from visitors, friends, kids, and the wife. I must admit they don't work the way I had hoped.
So, I have decided on two courses of action for the new house....
1. A Centralite LiteJet 48 system for the main areas, augmented by it's UPB control for rooms such as the kids areas, garage, laundry, etc. The reason for this is I can't keep the light load to less than 48 loads, so I will have to augment with something... the UPB stuff could be added later. Centralite will sell me the 48 and I can put it in and program it with little or no support.
OR
2. A Centralite Elegance system, using however many loads I need just to make everything work the same everywhere, and forego the UPB stuff.
Here are my concerns, and I will label them so you can respond to them individually if you desire...
Concern #1...
The LiteJet 48 system is really just a LiteJet 24 that has 24 extra loads and nothing extra else. This limits me to 30 scenes and I think 32 Keypads (more accurately 192 buttons). 32 Keypads (192 buttons) with only 30 scenes doesn't make much sense to me... If I divided the 48 loads into, say, 8 rooms (or areas), that gives me 6 loads per room, which would do me pretty good for the more public areas, but I am now limited to short of 4 scenes per room. When you figure "transitional" scenes from one area to the next, like from the kitchen to the main hall, you could run out of "scenes" pretty quick, and considering that you need to still control those UPB devices sitting out there in the wings, that gets pretty slim for control options? Thoughts...
Concern #2...
If I go with the Elegance, obviously, there are no real limitations, except for my own budget. OH, and I would also like to hook this thing up myself. I don't really want to run the HV stuff, but the control, hookup, and setup of the LV stuff would be my baby... Does Centralite even allow this??
Concern #3...
Does anybody have a rough guess as to how much more the elegance system would cost?? I was figuring that the Lite Jet 48 at about $5500 for hardware only figures to about $115 per load. (Yikes) UPB at around $80 per load.
Concern #4...
If I am correct, I see each MCP connection point (where the RJ45s hook into the controller) will support 6 buttons each... Then why doesn't centralite offer a 6 button keypad in their "classica" line of keypads. I can't find it anywhere? They do offer it in their "europa" line, but I think the buttons are goofy when they are arrow shaped towards each other, and to a visitor, that can lead to confusion. Heck, I am confused already wondering how I would program those things. The 6 button doesn't have the same basic shape as, say, a 2 button. I would like to program the keypads as much the same in each room as possible... Top button turns something on, bottom button turns everything off. Buttons in between give you different light "shapes". There isn't much mention of their other keypads, which look pretty weak to me. Any programming tips would be great...
Concern #5...
Speaking of keypads, a couple of people on here have stated they thought the Centralite keypads didn't have the "feel" quite right. Anybody care to try to explain what they mean by this... Maybe I just need to order a keypad just to play with it myself...
Concern #6...
Fans... They come in two basic varieties. Vent fans and ceiling fans. I would like to control both with the centralite system, just to make the wall clutter look right. Nothing fancy here. Ceiling fan will either be ON or OFF, no speed control and I don't really want to use a fan board for this purpose. In the case of a vent fan, I would like it to come on when I push the button, and then stay on for a timed period. If I hit the button again, it turns off. If I have 7 vent fans in my house, that is a lot of money to do something a switch timer from Home Depot would do for 15 dollars. Do I need to be so vain that I spend 700 dollars so I don't clutter up the wall in the throne?? For that matter, same thing goes for the ceiling fans everywhere else... 9 ceiling fans plus 7 vent fans takes up 16 loads... yikes. Is that why centralite is trying to sell that fan control board??
Concern #7...
Non dimmable loads.... Motors, outlets (I am in the country, and no electrical inspection), flourescents, etc. The litejet allows you to hook this stuff up and then program it as "non dimmable" load, and it will shoot the full voltage to that device. In the case of the elegance, which I understand is older technology, you are supposed to replace the "phase controlled dimmer relay" with a different realy. How is this actually accomplished, and how much does it cost??
Concern #8...
I live in a very hot, fairly humid climate. My house will be "super" insulated, and as energy effecient as I can make it. The inside air will be fairly low in humidity (very low air exchange rate compared to most homes). Can I mount these relay panels in the garage and keep their heat out of the house, or will centralite throw a fit. The garage will get pretty warm and humid, so that isn't a perfect situation either. How much heat do these panels produce?? If I put them in an equipment closet inside, will that closet get hot?? I have a lot of other equipment I need to put in there too, and none of it wants to be hot either. Cold weather here is not severe, normally no lower than the teens.
Concern #9...
Subcontractors... So far all of the electrical guys I have talked to locally, not one has ever installed a hardwired system. This isn't Southern California and most people here are very simple (I am not a local, nor treated like one). I am of the opinion that this would be much simpler to install than a regular electrical system with conventional switches (especially with lots of 3 and 4 way switches on multiple circuits). When I have talked to any sparky's that are interested in these systems, they start talking about how much they have heard they cost, which irritates me as it isn't their cost or complexity... that is mine to deal with, but they act like they will want a big premium for dealing with something different.... Makes me want to wire it myself, but I don't trust myself quite that much with the HV, so I know I will need to hire the HV done. What language in a contract is different from what a regular electrical contractor should expect, or do I just carefully spec it out to them in GREAT detail???
OK, that is enough. Again, any opinions are greatly appreciated. Please be gentle, though. I have a lot of ownership in my research so far.
Thanks for your comments in advance.
Mark