running wires to the headend

[Digger]

Yes some installers do that and technically there is nothing wrong with that since it is the same node on the M1 or the expander boards. The only thing that might be a slight concern is if that connection failed you would lose all of those sensors. honestly not a likely scenerio and I would probably do it myself.

This would apply to the following wires

Negative power
Positive Power
Zone Common

 

[rfdesq]

Neil:

You have the basic wiring correct. However, it is 22/4 from the motion sensors, not 18/4. The 18/4 is for the smoke detectors and it is red fire wire not regular wire.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

hey guys, about the installation of wiring, I'm a bit worried that when I pull the wires from the studs, it might scrape the sleeve. I'm sure it will. Are there any techniques that you guys do to minimize this problem?

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Neil:

You have the basic wiring correct. However, it is 22/4 from the motion sensors, not 18/4. The 18/4 is for the smoke detectors and it is red fire wire not regular wire.

Oh yeah, I forgot. I actually have 22/4 on my real diagram. I don't know why I used 18/4. Oh, since my Heat sensor uses 18/4, that wiring is correct then right?

 

[rfdesq]

Yes some installers do that and technically there is nothing wrong with that since it is the same node on the M1 or the expander boards. The only thing that might be a slight concern is if that connection failed you would lose all of those sensors. honestly not a likely scenerio and I would probably do it myself.

This would apply to the following wires

Negative power
Positive Power
Zone Common

I didn't common the negatives until my first M1 install. I found the enclosure really tight and found it made for a neater installation if I joined the negatives outside of the M1 enclosure. For zones 1 through 16 on the main board I only needed 18 wires instead of 32. Two 18 gauge for the zone 16 smoke and one common and 15 wires for the other zones. As I explained to Neil I also loop with a piece of wire the negative power terminal to the negative switch terminal inside of the motion detectors. One 22/4 wire covers negative, power, switch, and tamper on a motion detector.

 

[rfdesq]

Oh yeah, I forgot. I actually have 22/4 on my real diagram. I don't know why I used 18/4. Oh, since my Heat sensor uses 18/4, that wiring is correct then right?

It looks pretty good to me. You might want to use the 18/4 for the heat detectors depending on how much wire you have left over. It's not necessary but it is better used than sitting on the roll in the basement. I've only been looking at this from a security installation. You still have HA (home automation) wiring to determine.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Oh yeah, I forgot. I actually have 22/4 on my real diagram. I don't know why I used 18/4. Oh, since my Heat sensor uses 18/4, that wiring is correct then right?

It looks pretty good to me. You might want to use the 18/4 for the heat detectors depending on how much wire you have left over. It's not necessary but it is better used than sitting on the roll in the basement. I've only been looking at this from a security installation. You still have HA (home automation) wiring to determine.

By the way, I went to my new construction house today. Kitchen is similar to my friend's house and he has 42" cabinet similar to what I ordered. If you look at my diagram below, I have a motion sensor in the NW corner in kitchen. I'm a bit worried that the top part of the cabinet will block some part of the motion sensor. What is your recommendation now? Should I relocate it?

Here is the link again. MS is the motion sensor.

http://restricted.dyndns.org/firstfloorsecuritydiagram.html

 

[rfdesq]

It's hard without a picture. But, you could put it on the West wall in the middle of the kitchen and shoot it all the way across the family room. That way someone entering a window will walk across the beam.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

I may have to go back to the old diagram. I found out today that the 22/12 wires I need are expensive. It's too much for my budget.

I drew another design. The design uses M1XIN expanders in each floor. The smoke will still be a 2 conductor and it will be connected in series to the M1 zone 16. It will not be terminated to any M1XIN board. I'm also aware of the troubleshooting since M1XIN board is now away from the M1.

And am I correct that I really need only 1 CAT5E/6 cable to connect one M1XIN board to the M1DBH RJ45 receptable? And M1XIN board in each floor will be able to support my motion,windows/door contacts,water , co and heat sensors?

All keypads too are directly connected to M1DBH both on 1st and 2nd floor. Each have their dedicated CAT5E/6 cable.

EDIT: Can you also please tell me how many M1XIN expander board I need for each floor based from the sensors I have? This was I will be able to provision the CAT5E/6 wires.

Please comment guys on the new diagram.

http://restricted.dyndns.org/target/1stflo..._expanders.html
http://restricted.dyndns.org/target/2ndflo..._expanders.html

 

[rfdesq]

That works too. I would still run a couple of 22/4 wires from the attic to the basement for future expansion.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

That works too. I would still run a couple of 22/4 wires from the attic to the basement for future expansion.

I think I need to use CAT5E right since it will be terminated to M1DBH. And I remember that it needs 6 conductors. I may have to check the M1DBH manual again.

Thanks.

 

[Steve]

Maybe I'm wrong but I suspect the data bus hub (M1DBH) may not be the best fit for you if you will be doing a distributed system. The reason is the DBH is intended for homerun cables where each individual device plugs into a port and daisy chains to the next. In this scenario, if you wanted to add say another XIN on a floor, you would have to humerun a cable from that XIN back to the DBH in the basement.

If you use the retrofit hub which splits the bus into separate branches you can daisy chain devices on each floor. So if you added another XIN you could connect it just to the existing XIN already there and not have to homerun a new cable. Look at the diagram in the DBHR manual, it may help you understand better.

The DBH will certainly work, but just be aware you will need to homerun any additional bus device back to it in the future.

Maybe for each of troubleshooting in the future you use a DBHR and have 1 bus/branch run to each floor. Then in the future if you need to do troubleshooting, you can just disconnect 1 wire to 'disconnect' a floor and its devices.

Just a thought...

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Maybe I'm wrong but I suspect the data bus hub (M1DBH) may not be the best fit for you if you will be doing a distributed system. The reason is the DBH is intended for homerun cables where each individual device plugs into a port and daisy chains to the next. In this scenario, if you wanted to add say another XIN on a floor, you would have to humerun a cable from that XIN back to the DBH in the basement.

I don't know if I understand you correctly.

Here is how I'm going to connect the boards.

M1 connects to M1DBH. M1DBH has many RJ45 ports. Since I have 2 M1XIN boards, 1 in first floor and another one in second floor, I will use two RJ45 on the M1DBH board. I still have RJ45 ports left on the M1DBH. I will use the remaining for my keypads. Each keypad will have a dedicated CAT5E cable.

What do you think?

Thanks,

Ronneil

 

[Steve]

Yes, I understand that. Perhaps you should read the manuals for both the DBH and DBHR very carefully to understand the difference. It explains it better than I can, but the DBH essentially daisy chains the devices together at the hub and terminates with the plug. This method requires a homerun cable from each bus device to the hub. The DBHR splits the bus into 4 separate manageable branches each with its own termination. That means you can daisy chain devices together remotely without having to homerun cables back to the hub.

Remember, this will work, you just have to remember you need to homerun ALL BUS DEVICES (keypads, input or output expanders, relays boards, etc) to the hub which is in your basement next to the M1. My point is if you decide to add a new bus device (most likely an additional input expander) in the future you will need to run a cat5 wire from that expander down to the hub in the basement instead of just running a short wire to the adjacent expander on that floor.

Perhaps if someone else understands what I'm saying and agrees they can explain it better...

 

[toymaster458]

you can have a DBH down and a DBH up.