SageTV Basic Hardware Questions

SnyperBob

SnyperBob

Active Member
Hi!

I've been checking every day for any SageTV info/posts (IVB!), but I have some questions that I can't wait to get cleared up!

What kind of tuner cards are you guys using? What interface does your tuner card(s) use (PCI, PCI-Express, USB, etc)

I really want to get up and running with this Sage stuff, but I'm lost on what hardware to buy. I've used Hauppauge in the past and I like their products. I'm confused at the specs between the HVR 1600 and HVR 1800. Why does the 1600 come with a blaster and remote, but the 1800 doesn't? Is it because the 1800 you can just plug your digital cable/satellite right into it and it can tune on it's own (no need to change channels on cable box, card can do it)?

I work nights and sleep days/evenings, so I really need to get some timeshifting up and running.

As a general rule of thumb, is the higher the product number the better way to go when shopping for tuners? ie.. go with the 1800 over the 1600, go with the PVR 500 over the 350?

Not sure if you guys know much about the Hauppauges (sorry with all those specific questions), but what's the difference between the HVR and PVR models? HVR = high def?

Also, I think my graphics card slot on my mother board is PCI-Express. Can I just pop the PCI-X tuner card in that slot, or does my mobo have to have 'more' or 'other' PCI-Express slots, besides the graphics card one? I have on-board graphics, so I don't use the one slot with a graphics card.

Does anyone have any MVP extenders that you're willing to part with? It appears all extenders are sold out on their site. If not, do you have any idea when they'll get more in (have you heard anything)?

What tuner card do you recommend (or not recommend)?


Thanks!!
Bob
 
Also, SageTV's site sells tuners. I know I can get them cheaper elsewhere but why is the WinTV-PVR500MCE cost more than the HVR-1600? Is the 500MCE 'better'?

Basically, someone tell wtf to buy.

I want to be able to record in HD.
I have cable (no satellite)

I think that is all ???
 
I'll give it a shot...

Are you planning on recording and watching HD? If so, you can record clear QAM channels that your cable provides... the channels your TV can receive without a cable box. All the rest of your channels will be in SD (either via cable directly if not locked, or via cable set-top box (STB) and svideo cable).

The tuner card you buy is completely up to you... you need to find one that matches what you want it to do, and what your hardware can handle. I have 3 tuner cards, all PCIe (including 1 1800). There is nothing wrong with PCI cards either (ie 1600). I didn't want IR, but I wanted to record via STB and HD OTA (Over the air antenna).

Regarding PCs, I recommend a robust PC to handle everything. If you plan on using the PC connected to your TV, it needs more power. if you plan on using extenders only - a lessor PC will do (unless you are recording in HD and displaying via MVP because PC needs to convert everything to SD which takes some CPU power).

Regarding Hard Disks - it depends on how many tuners and TVs you have. If you have 1 of each - 1 hard disk will work fine. If you have multiples, you are better off with multiple hard drives (Sage will balance each drive based on how full it is) to minimize read/write hiccups.

Regarding MVPs - unless you know you will never want HD, I would recommend buying the HD Extender. You'll pay a bit more, but it works better if you are including any recorded HD content (even if downscaled to SD). Requires less server CPU because it handles the transcoding. They are sold out of these as well for a few more weeks.

Hope that helps clear up some of your questions.
 
yeah, guilty as charged. I wrote it up in MS-Word, but it's a damn PITA to format it inline with a post. I"ll get off my a$$ and do that.

Ditto on the MVP - get the HDExtender; it's easier on the CPU for HD rendering, even if it's on an SDTV.

I don't know nuthin about those tuners; i'm using a PVR-500 dual-tuner for the SD recordings, and an HDHR external IP box for HD OTA (via a CM4228 antenna) for hidef. I hear the HDHR can tune QAM, which is the unencrypted cable channels, so I think you would want to buy that first to see how it goes. If it doesn't work out well enough then based on your distance to the tower, you could always put up an antenna for free HD recording, and get the PVR500 for your cable recording.
 
Snypez said:
Hi!

I've been checking every day for any SageTV info/posts (IVB!), but I have some questions that I can't wait to get cleared up!

What kind of tuner cards are you guys using? What interface does your tuner card(s) use (PCI, PCI-Express, USB, etc)
Click to expand...

I am using a Hauppauge HVR-1600 and an old ATI HDTV wonder in my Sage box.
I also have a ATI 650 tuner card in anothe HTPC, they all work very well for me.
All my cards are PCI because that is what was available at the store when I bought them.
I also have a R5000HD modded Sat receiver for recording HD, it does not respond as fast as
an internal tuner card but it gives me the ability to time shift premium HD programming.
 
bfisher said:
Regarding MVPs - unless you know you will never want HD, I would recommend buying the HD Extender. You'll pay a bit more, but it works better if you are including any recorded HD content (even if downscaled to SD). Requires less server CPU because it handles the transcoding. They are sold out of these as well for a few more weeks.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I definately wouldn't mind getting a nHD Extender, I just threw that out there in case anyone wants to get rid of their MVP's in favor of upgrading to the HD extenders.

I don't have any HD Tv's yet, but I want to be smart about it of course and buy the HD extender initially. I'll be replacing ALL of my TV's next year with newer HD ones. It may be a stupid question, but I can use the HD Extender on my crappy non-HD tv's without problems, right?

I actually just have crappy TVs and basic cable now (no cable box). I'm not worried about that, I just want to buy the hardware NOW that will prepare me for the near FUTURE. you know how that goes.

OK, Now here's another question. If I buy a tuner card that has dual tuners can I RECORD TWO PROGRAMS AT ONCE? I know you can watch live TV with one tuner and record using the other.....but can I record using both tuners at the same time?

IVB - If it's too much of a hassle, just post up the word doc and let everyone just go off that (kind of like the house wiring guide). :lol:

Thanks,
B
 
I have two machines running Sage right now. One has 2 Hauppauge 150s and 1 Hauppauge 250. These are all single tuner analog PCI cards. This machine can tune 3 different channels at the same time. Any one of them can also be viewed live on either that PC, clients, machines running placeshifter, or extenders.

The other machine currently has a Hauppauge 1600, a PCI card. This card has two tuners - one is analog and the other is digital. The digital tuner can be used for OTA or clear QAM (unencrypted digital cable). The two tuners mean that both can be operating at the same time - recording, viewing live, or both (viewing live is actually recording at the same time). The 1800 is the PCI-X version of the 1600 (ignoring things like remotes and blasters).

All of these tuners also have the option to record from composite or svideo as well. But if you use them for this, they cannot simultaneously tune analog or digital signals. Sage handles switching back and forth between them automatically.

Sage can use as many tuners as you want and record with all of them at the same time.

The Hauppauge 500 has dual analog tuners. It's exactly like putting two 150s or 250s (or any combination) in the machine at the same time, but it only uses one slot.

The Hauppauge 350 is similar to a 150 or 250, with a single tuner, but it has built-in hardware for playback - kind of like having a specialized video card. I don't think it's necessary these days - it primarily offloads playback from the CPU.

All of the above cards have hardware MPEG2 encoding built-in for the analog signals. Digital signals are saved directly without manipulation. The hardware encoding makes it possible to have multiple tuners running at the same time without overloading the PC.

There are other new cards from Hauppauge which I believe do not have hardware encoders. These are the 1250 and 2250 (with single and dual tuners, respectively). These cards have combined digital and analog tuners. I believe that you can not use digital and analog on the 1250 at the same time (unlike the 1600 and 1800). The 2250 is not out yet.

One of the external (USB) tuners also has a hardware encoder.

I have both an MVP and HD extender. They are both nice devices. I've had the MVP for years, previously running the Hauppauge server software and not using Sage, but it's using Sage now.

By the way, a lot of people are having problems with the QAM tuners on the 1600 and 1800, myself included. I can only get it to tune 3 channels while my TV can get several more. There is a new beta driver from Hauppauge that is supposed to work better, but I haven't installed it yet.

EDIT - May 23, 2008
Part of my information on the 2250 card was wrong. I have gotten confirmation from Hauppauge that the 2250 will have hardware mpeg2 encoders on it.
 
Get a PVR500 and a Hauppauge MediaMVP from newegg.com
Get the SageTV Media Center plus placeshifter combo from SageTV store
Run that for a little while and you will learn enough to make logic choices and have enough performance to be interested.




IMHO the PVR500 will not be outdated anytime soon even though it does not posses a digital tuner.

HVR1600 vs HVR1800 comes down to interface, 1600 is PCI and 1800 is PCIe x1.

Right now I would hold off on the HVRs, Hauppauge will have a new capture device by the time you have followed the first 3 lines.
 
ok, thanks for some answers guys! It's good to finally have someone just tell me what to buy!

haha! I think I may go with a HVR 1600 over the PVR 500 just because the 1600 is like $50 cheaper, and I know I'll most likely replace/upgrade it in a few years anyway.

Smee, you said that you have two servers running SageTV. Also, you said that you can view both servers on Placeshifter or Extenders. That's freakin' sweet! I'm guessing that's a good way to divide the resources, by streaming recordings from multiple servers.

Well, I think I'll get the 1600, just because I have two computers now and only one of them has PCI-Express. When I'm ready to upgrade my older PC (the one that doesn't have PCI-E), I'll just dedicate that box to SageTV or whatever. If that machine ends up being too old/slow/crappy to run Sage with extenders, I can just pop the PCI card into my faster other computer. Or whatever. Flip it, the more time I waste trying to figure this crapola out, the more shows I miss being able to record on TV!!!!

Thanks everyone!
 
Snypez said:
Smee, you said that you have two servers running SageTV. Also, you said that you can view both servers on Placeshifter or Extenders. That's freakin' sweet! I'm guessing that's a good way to divide the resources, by streaming recordings from multiple servers.
Click to expand...

The main reason I have two machines running Sage is that I didn't want to shut down the old one while reconfiguring the new one. But, it's working pretty well with two machines running.

My first Sage machine is the one with 3 tuners in it (all analog). It's running an old version of Sage (4.x) even though I also have a newer (6.x) license for it. It's running XP Home on an older processor (1.7 Celeron?). It has always been used primarily for recording, although the vga out is connected to an input of my TV (prior to getting a TV with VGA in, it was connected to a box that converted VGA to composite which then fed my composite-video-based A/V distribution system). This machine is still used primarily for recording. It ended up with three tuners primarily because I would end up with overlap in recording times. I like to record with a buffer of a couple minutes before and after each program. Recording two programs in a row with a single tuner would not allow this, so I went to two. Then, there always seemed to be one other program that would interfere with that (especially old movies which I like to record) so I went to three. Note that it does not tax the machine at all when recording three programs simultaneously.

I typically copy recordings from this machine (and then edit out commercials). They are stored on a server or burned to DVD.

The new machine is running Windows Home Server with the WHS version of Sage. It's running on a Core 2 Duo that I removed from another machine (replaced with a quad) and 2G of memory (overkill, but it's cheap). This machine is primarily used to play back recordings (to extenders, etc.) and live TV. It's also used to record spur-of-the-moment programs which is one of the reasons I will be bumping it up to two tuners (the 1600 it has now and an 1800) - so it can be used for live TV while it's recording. It's also being used as my main file server.

If your recordings are all MPEG2, you need very few resources on the Sage machine to play them back using extenders, placeshifter, or clients. If you are using something other than MPEG2, they will need to be transcoded on the Sage machine for playback on the MPV or placeshifter. This will eat up some of your machines resources - how much depends on the file type and what Sage is sending out (it will transcode differently for placeshifter on a local network and placeshifter over the internet). One of the benefits of the new HD extender is that many files do not need to be transcoded before being sent to it.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'd go with a pretty decent single Sage machine setup. I will probably switch over at some point. Sage can use tuners in other computers on your network so it's possible that I will stop running Sage on my first machine and let the new machine do everything, but using the tuners that are in the first machine. Or I may just shut down the first machine to save energy/money/etc.
 
If you want a disposable card might look at the HVR-1250, you can get one at a circuitcity near you for ~$50.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Hauppauge-W...roductDetail.do


Either way I would get a PVR500 as most of what you will watch is available with it, ATSC and QAM is a small part of even the expanded basic cable TV lineup much less digital cable.


USBUIRT if you wish to control a cable box.

The tuners are packaged differently some having different options, pricing is effected by this. PCAlchemy is a good place to look as they carry a bunch of stuff.
 
CollinR said:
If you want a disposable card might look at the HVR-1250, you can get one at a circuitcity near you for ~$50.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Hauppauge-W...roductDetail.do
Click to expand...

The only problem I have with the 1250 is that it (as far as I know) does not have hardware MPEG2 encoding built-in. This means that your CPU has to do work when you are recording (unlike the 150, 250, 500, 1600, and 1800). I find this disappointing because the 2250 (out in a few months) is a dual-tuner PCI-e card (unlike the PCI 500). The hardware MPEG2 means the CPU is doing essentially nothing.

Also, unlike the 1600 and 1800, the 1250 can only tune one channel at a time - even though it has both analog and digital capability. The 1600 and 1800 can tune both at the same time - they look like two separate tuners to Sage.

Of course, this is not important if you are not looking for clear QAM or OTA digital.

EDIT - May 23, 2008
Part of my information on the 2250 card was wrong. I have gotten confirmation from Hauppauge that the 2250 will have hardware mpeg2 encoders on it.
 
Yea but with the component capture coming the PVR500 will still work for most of the duties for most people and the component capture will cover the rest.

ATSC and clear QAM have little intersted to me beyond the $50 HVR-1250 as of all the shows I record a very small number is available ATSC or QAM. It's just too few channels compared to the 60-120 you get from a PVR500 with cable.

Sat TV makes this a little different.

The $50 HVR1250 I would use just for ATSC for the few (~3 favorites) I have available. I have 2 PVR500s already so it's rare they are all busy. I just think all the ATSC / QAM tuners will get pwned by the new component campture device. So I wouldn't put a bunch of $ in them.


ATSC is basically the highest quality video you will have access to, it may be few channels but they are quality.
 
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