Security Cameras - A Newbie's Observations

[Sacedog]

4. acti are entry level ip cameras but are probably 6th or so in overall ip cam sales in the world. we have had trouble integrating them into our apps but they are starting to realize some of their shortcomings and are working with R&D to overcome them. they are strictly single stream cameras. i.e. you setup what codec, resolution, etc. you want via web page and that is what you get no matter what client you use to view it. other cameras such as axis you can call remote stream variables on the fly.

The Acti TCM-4301s I have support dual streams, but I think this is a new feature they are adding, and it is not available on all of their cameras. They are definately an entry level IP cam, but I don't think they can be beat for the $. Mobotix are awesome, but are very expensive.

To answer your other question regarding the Acti NVR software, I am pretty sure it only supports their own cameras.

 

[Sacedog]

I thought I would attach a pic of the setup screen for dual streams on the Acti TCM-4301.

 

[charliebarns]

I thought I would attach a pic of the setup screen for dual streams on the Acti TCM-4301.

View attachment 2868

What firmware do you have on your 4201s? I have mine updated to the latest firmware and my setup screen looks nothing like that....


thx

cb

opps just noticed that a 4301 you have....

 

[standon]

I thought I would attach a pic of the setup screen for dual streams on the Acti TCM-4301.

View attachment 2868

What firmware do you have on your 4201s? I have mine updated to the latest firmware and my setup screen looks nothing like that....


thx

cb

opps just noticed that a 4301 you have....

I have the 4301's too on my setup. What do you think of the low light picture? I keep fussing with it and now I'm not sure which way is up or down.

For anyone interested, I use a Qnap Viostor VS-2008 to record. I was going to post a review, but since I'm never had an NVR before this, I couldn't figure out what to say, lol.

 

[Sacedog]

The low light pictures are great in my setup, but mine are indoors in an office suite, where there is always lighting on (the emergency lighting stays on 24/7). The picture is definately grainer at low light. Like I said before, the lower end Acti cameras are not ideal for low light situations; however, some of their higher end models are.

We also have a couple of the 8201 PTZ megapixel cameras, which I really like. That camera has a big brother, the 8211, witch will automatically switch to b&w in low light situations, giving you much better low-light quality. But in our situation, it wasn't necessary.

FWIW, I started to mess around with the free Acti software that comes with every IP camera they sell. It is pretty nice, but it does only support Acti cameras. If anyone is interested, I could post more information about the software, with some screen shots.

 

[twilo123]

the 8511 is what they lent us and it is single stream when we had it less than 2 months ago. even with the beta firmware we worked with it was still single stream. TCM are a newer line and are not their bread and butter so to speak (although it is their future line so they hope to change this). majority of their product is ACM although they want to move towards the newer TCM models. Whether they can be beat for the $ i don't know. like i mentioned they are an entry level camera so yes their pricing is below many others. mobotix are more money but like a lot of things you get what you pay for. mobotix has a particular market they go after which is more like outdoors, mass transit, etc. my experience was when trying to integrate into our mobile phone apps and are definitely not indicative of how the camera itself works; just things we ran into on the api side which became headaches fast especially compared to other companies we have integrated.

 

[mwachtmann]

My two cents.
 
IP cameras are the way to go. IMO, that is where the technology direction is headed and where the manufacturer's will be spending most of their resources.
 
Absolutely wired. Once I wired up my first camera that was it. They all are wired except what I call my "Mobile Cams". It makes a HUGE difference in network performance. It takes all of the traffic off the wireless network and puts it on the wire greatly increasing network performance and reliability. It is wins all the way around.
 
Something else to consider when you are designing your "cable plant". Consider if installing multiple routers can reduce your cabling cost and complexity. 
 
I'm not an expert on the nuts and bolts of cabling. I thought the tips might help just from the perspective of maximizing network performance, and in the process you might be able to reduce your cabling costs by deploying multiple routers.

 

[Del91574]

There's inherent problems with multiple routers and how you build the network that require a lot of attention prior to making a blanket statement to the effect of installing multiple pieces of network hardware to facilitate cabling.
 
Usually the installation of more network hardware is to transport the signal elsewhere more economically compared to the analog method, usually made more complex by distance limitations (I doubt most residential will exceed the 90 meter limit...the standard discounting the patch cabling for IP). before a transition to another media or amp would need to be considered.
 
IP is going to become more prevalent, however analog isn't going away too soon...it can't. Unless there's a lot of progress in the world of cameras and improving the integrity of the connection to more than a single RJ45. What is going to become more prevalent (it already has) is the hybrid units and the NVR's that have integral POE and network capabilities....because if the host network the cameras are going to be installed on can't handle the bandwith load of the cameras it's all a moot point as to what is installed.

 

[drvnbysound]

I've yet to find an NVR software that I like the inferface of and isn't enterprise expensive. For residential use, I don't want to pay ~$1k for each IP camera license. I've looked at various comsumer-grade products too, such as BlueIris and ZoneMinder, but 1) not crazy about having a Windows machine as my NVR from both a reliability and security standpoint (arguable), and 2) don't care for the ZoneMinder eco-system, where updates are reliant on an individual, which seem to occur much less frequently in the past few years.
 
Having said that, I'd really be interested in a Linux-based product (i.e. software to roll-my-own appliance) that was well designed (user interface) and well supported. Unfortunately, it seems that the NVR software companies that are in this arena are geared to the enterprise systems

 

[pete_c]

Personally have always utilized ZM.  They have updated it recently with continuous support on their forum.  That said I could always make the software work with whatever hardware I utilized.  Today its a hybrid of a legacy 8 port / 8 chip capture card and SD and HD IP video.  Years ago though you had to sort of hand build the capture drivers for whatever type of video capture card you utilized; it was a real PITA.  Once you got it working though it never breaks or fails.  Much of the commercial stuff is based on embedded Linux kernels; tight and light.  Similar to the hardware / software that Tivo used for many years.  ZM is also sold commercially with support et al. 
 
On the commercial side and advent of IP SD camera stuff that I played with and at the time "precious and expensive" data transport; there were issues relating to "security" utilizing the network for IP camera CCTV utilization and silo separation stuff.  You couldn't really throttle the pipes that easily such that you had to throttle the throughput of the camera lower the frames per second and resolution for streaming.  It was an issue of who would pay for the infrastructure relating to the transport (money bucket stuff).  Personally here my early recommendations (early 2000's) were to keep the transport separate from the common network transport.  Multiple location WAN concerns though would crop up.  Today its a bit different relating to the throughput and throttling stuff but the base issues are still a concern (who's bucket of money is utilized).
 
I see it as an issue and not an issue for a residential setup.  Here I like separate switches versus using VLANs for stuff like this and much of the time have seen wireless becoming a problem; relating to how many devices you have on the wireless network et al.  3-4 residential IP HD cameras really shouldn't cause much of an issue if they are wired or wireless (maybe a separate AP for just the cameras would work).  Lately too moved a bunch of stuff to a Tycon 24 port POE midstream injector.  It is a managed passthrough device such that you utilize a switch for it.  It's use was meant more for multiple outdoor AP's installations versus stuff like POE VOIP telephones. I bought it refurbished and it was reasonably priced.  I am also utilizing this device to power up my small tabletop touchscreens.

 

[Del91574]

Driv- look at Milestone.
 
If you play your cards right with the 30 day trial and archive appropriately, the free download software will work well and do what anyone wants to do with it...well.

 

[drvnbysound]

Driv- look at Milestone.
 
If you play your cards right with the 30 day trial and archive appropriately, the free download software will work well and do what anyone wants to do with it...well.

 
I actually heard of Milestone a little over a week ago. I just browsed their products and more specifically their comparison tool. I was going to download and try it, but would really like to know what the pricing structure looks like before I bother... and can't seem to find anything online. Do you have any insight?

 

[Del91574]

Free!
 
XprotectGO. Then get yourself the web client.
 
If you archive and run it every 30 days you'd never have to buy. Bunch of coworkers have been doing that for a while.
 
Relatively cheap because you're providing the hardware. You do have to buy a per-camera license and it must be a supported (read: not a cheapie Foscam) camera.
 
If you're pinching pennies, look at their Husky line. Pretty cheap for a built NVR and licenses.

 

[drvnbysound]

Free!
 
XprotectGO. Then get yourself the web client.
 
If you archive and run it every 30 days you'd never have to buy. Bunch of coworkers have been doing that for a while.
 
Relatively cheap because you're providing the hardware. You do have to buy a per-camera license and it must be a supported (read: not a cheapie Foscam) camera.
 
If you're pinching pennies, look at their Husky line. Pretty cheap for a built NVR and licenses.

 
I saw that the XprotectGo was free, but also saw the maximum number of users was 1... and that it only supports archiving for 5 days. When it says, max number of users is 1... is that a single user account, or that only one user can be logged in at once? I don't mine sharing an account for this with my wife/family. However, I'd definitely want us to be able to log in simultaneously (e.g. browser and/or app).
 
Having said that, I've also looked at the Essential and Express products and have interest there, and found applicable pricing via B&H here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Brand_Milestone&ci=12399&N=4045021098+4076157984).
 
Their product feature chart shows support for video analytics once you get to the Express product. Does that include motion detection? Or is that the more robust analytics such as trip wires and more advanced types of rules? A better way of asking may be... does the Go product support motion detection?
 
BTW: I saw the Husky DVRs last night, but literally just LOL'd to myself when I just saw the price of the M10 (supports 8 licenses) for $1,500. Atom processor and 1TB. Particularly when, as you said, the Go software is free.

 

[Del91574]

The Husky does not have the GO software installed on it.
 
I can't comment too much about the GO and how my coworkers are working around the archiving. I'd say the user functionality has to do with how many are logged in as clients at a time, that's the only logical way I could see it working. I believe that the 3 individual ways you can hit the server don't account for the single client restriction. I don't have it running on a machine to play with, I'm dealing with larger applications and don't have time to tinker like some of my coworkers.
 
$1500 for a server based NVR is cheap, especially if you're considering the software involved.
 
You have to keep in mind, analytics are not what you believe them to be when considering NVR's and functionality. Generally when you're looking at NVR's and software like this, analytics refer to motion detection and how that's configured. Analytics usually end up as a part of another software package.