And proprietary.....and locked into a single manufacturer....and only compatible with itself or backwards to X-10 which is dead to any more modern controller. Not to mention any integration to any other piece of hardware is going to require a 3rd party device or interface.LarrylLix said:
Selecting a Protocol for lighting: Zwave or UPB?
- Thread starter markl007
- Start date
drvnbysound said:
I use the phase coupler in my house which is 2800 sq ft. The phase coupler is a passive device that lets the signals transfer between phases. When viewing the signals with UPStart switches that are on the opposite phase have a weaker signal compared to switches on the same phase. The repeater is an active device that listens and retransmits the signal on the second phase. The downside is the repeater costs more and is only compatible with Gen 3 UPB hardware. All HAI UPB switches are Gen 3.
pete_c
Guru
While all of my light switches today are UPB I am still using X10 today.
I have an Insteon PLM in place but only a couple of Insteon switches around.
That said I have an X-10 dual phased TW-523 plugged into the Leviton HAI OPII panel. (Jeff Volp's device). Works great.
Relating to the Linux side of things; X10 has always been around and well documented such that control is very plug n play on the Linux side.
X10 is not dead and still functions fine.
It is also a very inexpensive way and good introduction into automation without a large spend.
Here too I am using wireless X-10 via a WGL W800. Many folks have gone to using RFXCom these days.
Recently (and done very inexpensively) connected my NOAA radio to a DS10 A which talks to a W800 which talks to the OPII panel / Homeseer for NOAA weather alerts goofing around. That and the batteries are two years old now and the DS10A is working fine. Been testing Zigbee wireless stuff and have had a battery failure already after 6 months which is a PITA to deal with.
Testing serial connectivity with the Almond + for this or for that. It will be a neato automation combination with touchscreen hub if it talks Z-Wave, Zigbee, UPB and X10 (or to other serial controllers) and a unique one of a kind device.
Here I went to using a 1-wire dual counter for my two added water meter numbers. Today folks are also using wireless X10 DS10A's or just analog connections for the water meters (which is cheap and easy).
Its easy today to use analog control of the CCTV boxes; works fast and is easy.
Over the years relating to the Holiday lighting did try Insteon, Z-Wave and UPB. It was a hassle relating to configuration for just 30 days of lighting.
I went back to using X10 and it works great. One house code for every light; well two now. I am using the older Black and Decker outdoor X10 modules which were built to last forever and older X10 light and appliance modules for the inside holiday lighting. I am playing with remote control LED on batteries lighting and that also does work where I am getting 30 days of lighting on two little batteries.
That and most recently have gone to managing the two CCTV servers with X10. I am also using xAP for similiar management. This provides me with CCTV DVR manual control with Omnitouch screens connected to both analog and digital IP cameras today.
I have an Insteon PLM in place but only a couple of Insteon switches around.
That said I have an X-10 dual phased TW-523 plugged into the Leviton HAI OPII panel. (Jeff Volp's device). Works great.
Relating to the Linux side of things; X10 has always been around and well documented such that control is very plug n play on the Linux side.
X10 is not dead and still functions fine.
It is also a very inexpensive way and good introduction into automation without a large spend.
Here too I am using wireless X-10 via a WGL W800. Many folks have gone to using RFXCom these days.
Recently (and done very inexpensively) connected my NOAA radio to a DS10 A which talks to a W800 which talks to the OPII panel / Homeseer for NOAA weather alerts goofing around. That and the batteries are two years old now and the DS10A is working fine. Been testing Zigbee wireless stuff and have had a battery failure already after 6 months which is a PITA to deal with.
Testing serial connectivity with the Almond + for this or for that. It will be a neato automation combination with touchscreen hub if it talks Z-Wave, Zigbee, UPB and X10 (or to other serial controllers) and a unique one of a kind device.
Here I went to using a 1-wire dual counter for my two added water meter numbers. Today folks are also using wireless X10 DS10A's or just analog connections for the water meters (which is cheap and easy).
Its easy today to use analog control of the CCTV boxes; works fast and is easy.
Over the years relating to the Holiday lighting did try Insteon, Z-Wave and UPB. It was a hassle relating to configuration for just 30 days of lighting.
I went back to using X10 and it works great. One house code for every light; well two now. I am using the older Black and Decker outdoor X10 modules which were built to last forever and older X10 light and appliance modules for the inside holiday lighting. I am playing with remote control LED on batteries lighting and that also does work where I am getting 30 days of lighting on two little batteries.
That and most recently have gone to managing the two CCTV servers with X10. I am also using xAP for similiar management. This provides me with CCTV DVR manual control with Omnitouch screens connected to both analog and digital IP cameras today.
drvnbysound
Senior Member
rsw686 said:
Got it. So let me ask this... if you were doing a new installation, in a new construction home, which would you install?
pete_c
Guru
Here my signals were fine using just a phase coupler for some 2-3 years of UPB on the second floor of the home.
The phase couplers are inexpensive and do work fine.
The above noted using the phase repeater my UPB signals are just higher all around which I guess is a good thing relating to a quick scan of the UPB network.
What the heck; it's a PITA to play inside of your fuse panel unless you enjoy it.
Might as well just install a UPB repeater during the infrastructure build pieces.
Note this is my personal opinion as I do not work for the UPB folks.
The phase couplers are inexpensive and do work fine.
The above noted using the phase repeater my UPB signals are just higher all around which I guess is a good thing relating to a quick scan of the UPB network.
What the heck; it's a PITA to play inside of your fuse panel unless you enjoy it.
Might as well just install a UPB repeater during the infrastructure build pieces.
Note this is my personal opinion as I do not work for the UPB folks.
drvnbysound
Senior Member
pete_c said:
That's the main reason that I was asking. My wife and I have been meeting with a builder, and are meeting with a lender today. We are working on the possibility of having a new home built (start construction) toward the beginning/spring of next year. I'd much rather install one device, rather than end up troubleshooting and find out I need something else.
Apparently there is about a $200 price difference between the coupler and the repeater...
pete_c
Guru
Yup; here into electricity in general. Putting automated switches in is really not a concern.
Playing in and with my fuse panel is something that I do but not really recommend to those that are not familiar with this stuff.
Too I have pulled my meter with the electric company around or without them around to do some mods on my ingress stuff; very very low on the WAF stuff.
Playing in and with my fuse panel is something that I do but not really recommend to those that are not familiar with this stuff.
Too I have pulled my meter with the electric company around or without them around to do some mods on my ingress stuff; very very low on the WAF stuff.
LarrylLix said:
Every box I have checked in my house built in the early 2000s has a neutral. Although with the larger gang boxes accessing the neutral wire is a pain. Some of mine have 6 or 7 neutrals that are short and capped together in the back of the box.
I prefer wiring in the RadioRA 2 dimmers over the HAI UPB dimmers. The UPB dimmers are wires coming out of them and not screw terminals. This means you have to stuff extra wire and wire caps into the box. With the RadioRA 2 dimmers you just screw down the existing wires and your done. I haven't had a chance to test their new CFL/LED dimmer, but it doesn't require a neutral and is $30 cheaper. This would be a win if they work as stated.
drvnbysound
Senior Member
Agree with the above. I haven't seen a new construction home (post-2000) that isn't wired with romex, and has a neutral in every box.
pete_c
Guru
Home in FL was wired with 3 wire plus bare copper ground romex in every box around 2000. Is that normal for romex wiring today?
I have added post build electrical and it was easy with plastic boxes and romex but I prefer adding conduit in the midwest to adding romex box to box.
There are also firebreaks in every wall which dinged my post wiring a bit for adding automation stuff on new walls (touchscreen stuff). (this must have been some new FEMA building codes?)
One of the things that I have done in the midwest post contruction is add more breakers and circuits. I divided up the 2nd floor bedrooms and added circuits to the master bathroom / bedroom, garage, media room, kitchen, basement,et al (master bath has much electrical).
IE: server room / area in basement has 4 circuits today which are separate from everything else in the basement.
I did the same with the media room dividing up the lights, media circuits and just outlets to autonomous breakers.
Maybe I overdid it a bit as it does provide me with a great deal of granularity when I look at my fuse panel.
I have added post build electrical and it was easy with plastic boxes and romex but I prefer adding conduit in the midwest to adding romex box to box.
There are also firebreaks in every wall which dinged my post wiring a bit for adding automation stuff on new walls (touchscreen stuff). (this must have been some new FEMA building codes?)
One of the things that I have done in the midwest post contruction is add more breakers and circuits. I divided up the 2nd floor bedrooms and added circuits to the master bathroom / bedroom, garage, media room, kitchen, basement,et al (master bath has much electrical).
IE: server room / area in basement has 4 circuits today which are separate from everything else in the basement.
I did the same with the media room dividing up the lights, media circuits and just outlets to autonomous breakers.
Maybe I overdid it a bit as it does provide me with a great deal of granularity when I look at my fuse panel.
drvnbysound
Senior Member
My experience is that the fire blocks are added on a per-builder/framer basis. I worked on a newer home this year that didn't have any, and I just saw one last week that only had them on the interior wall of the garage.
All of the homes I've seen (post-2000) have a combination of 12/2 and 14/2 (hot, neutral, and ground) romex for the standard circuits, and generally have 14/3 (hot, neutral, traveler, and ground) for 3-way circuits - or used for circuits where dual loads are present (e.g. ceiling fans w/ lights).
Note, that you'll see in the links I provided above the Romex is stated 2 or 3-conductor with ground, which is how I listed the standard wiring present.
All of the homes I've seen (post-2000) have a combination of 12/2 and 14/2 (hot, neutral, and ground) romex for the standard circuits, and generally have 14/3 (hot, neutral, traveler, and ground) for 3-way circuits - or used for circuits where dual loads are present (e.g. ceiling fans w/ lights).
Note, that you'll see in the links I provided above the Romex is stated 2 or 3-conductor with ground, which is how I listed the standard wiring present.
pete_c
Guru
Thank-you drvnbysound.
It was a pain to wire up automated switches because contractor used shallow boxes with the runs of 14/3 everywhere. (switches and outlets and ceiling cans). Overdoing it which was fine for me cuz I was visiting weekly watching the build and sometimes bugging the contractor.
Here in the midwest many rooms and all of the 2nd floor bedrooms have switch wires to the wall outlets (1/2 always on and 1/2 switched).
The rooms with overhead cans all have double sets of wires for fans and lights. (all second floor and 4 rooms on main floor).
There are many 3-way switches. Each hallway has 3 (lower) and 4 (2nd floor). Kitchen has some 4 3 ways for just one set of cans and more for other local cans. Travelers everywhere which helped me much to figure out what was done before automating stuff.
In FL ran two extra circuits into the wiring closet which is tiny there. I also brought multimedia, network stuff into the laundry room as I did in the midwest. Kitchen in the midwest has 3 LCD TV's or MM sections (this was a WAF thing).
It was a pain to wire up automated switches because contractor used shallow boxes with the runs of 14/3 everywhere. (switches and outlets and ceiling cans). Overdoing it which was fine for me cuz I was visiting weekly watching the build and sometimes bugging the contractor.
Here in the midwest many rooms and all of the 2nd floor bedrooms have switch wires to the wall outlets (1/2 always on and 1/2 switched).
The rooms with overhead cans all have double sets of wires for fans and lights. (all second floor and 4 rooms on main floor).
There are many 3-way switches. Each hallway has 3 (lower) and 4 (2nd floor). Kitchen has some 4 3 ways for just one set of cans and more for other local cans. Travelers everywhere which helped me much to figure out what was done before automating stuff.
In FL ran two extra circuits into the wiring closet which is tiny there. I also brought multimedia, network stuff into the laundry room as I did in the midwest. Kitchen in the midwest has 3 LCD TV's or MM sections (this was a WAF thing).
