Sensors for Elk M1G

[allen363]

Hey guys,

I just bought an Elk M1G and need some advice on sensors. I thought I would order the Tane Micro Ultra Mini surface mount contacts for the doors and windows so I don't void the warranty on them.

Would you please help a newbie with recommendations on PIR, glass break, garage door, and other recommended sensors?

Thanks,
Allen

 

[nov0798]

Allen
I order all my sensors from www.alarmcontacts.com. They ship SUPER fast and the orders have always been correct. I have all Tane sensors in my system, and have not had any trouble. Hope this helps.

 

[tmbrown97]

I'm using the Rokonet pet-immune dual-technology PIR's - that's based on some reccomendations I received. Door contacts - there's so many... hard to say. Special needs may dictate one over the other.

Garage door - here's a thread on that one that I wish I'd seen sooner:
http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=10567

Glassbreak - I'm using the GE's - they have a super-small footprint and can go in the cieling - many of the others are wall-mount and fairly obtrusive. Unfortunately, I won't be breaking any windows to test them, as fun as that would be...

 

[Steve]

There really are too many choices and variables to just make generic recommendations. You may want to have a look at the Sentrol Application Guide for some idea. But for doors I prefer the recessed reed switches like these. It makes for a much cleaner installation as you never see the contact.

 

[allen363]

There really are too many choices and variables to just make generic recommendations. You may want to have a look at the Sentrol Application Guide for some idea. But for doors I prefer the recessed reed switches like these. It makes for a much cleaner installation as you never see the contact.

That's actually what I wanted originally but won't it void the warranty on the windows and doors?

Thanks,
Allen

 

[tmbrown97]

That's actually what I wanted originally but won't it void the warranty on the windows and doors? :unsure:

You should check with the manufacturer. This is such a common topic now, most manufacturers will do the contacts for you during install if you want - or at the very least, the generally have a preferred way/place to put the contacts that they are OK with. And one recessed installation type I've seen is to glue a magnet into the track on the window (no drilling, releasing the argon, etc), so the only modification is to the track - that's generally an even safer option.

 

[Steve]

Well, windows are iffy but I suggested them for doors. I don't see how they would void a warranty, you are just drilling a small hole in the top (or bottom w/ a basement) of the wood part of the door to press in a stubby magnet.

 

[allen363]

Excellent advice on contacting the manufacturer Todd B, so that is done and waiting on an answer from them. Would you happen to have a picture of the magnet glued into the window slide? I understand the concept but am not clear on placement, etc.

Also, Steve, I agree with you on the doors and will be doing them with the barrel sensors, thanks!

Allen

 

[tmbrown97]

I'll have to look for a picture when I have a minute... but here's an example of the sensor I'm talking about:
http://www.homecontrols.com/cgi-bin/main/c...ubby-Rare-Earth

I've seen it where the contact itself was drilled into the frame, and the little magnet itself was glued into the track on the window with a little silicone in a place that didn't obstruct and floated over the contact when the window was closed.

As far as how it voids the warranty - many windows these days are double or triple paned and argon-gas filled. Drilling a hole in the wrong place could allow the gas to escape or water to get in an deteriorate the seals. Modern windows are fairly advanced and the space between the glass is meant to be airtight. And some windows, like tempered glass, the edges are the weak point because of the way the glass has the center-tension. If you were to nick the edge just right, you get a very cool shattering effect. But if you're talking about the doors, yeah - I can't imagine a warranty issue...

 

[Photon]

How about skipping monitoring the doors, and monitor the deadbolt instead? I found enough space in the jamb deadbolt pocket into which I mounted a hinged piece of aluminum sheet. I mounted a magnet on this flapper, and one of the tiny Tane sensors toward the back. The deadbolt hits the flapper and swings it up to the sensor. I did this to avoid having to go downstairs to check the door before arming the system, but I could have skipped sensors on the door and saved the warranty.

If anyone has a method to harmlessly monitor the status of latches on double hung windows, feel free to tell us about it. I contacted the manufacture of our vinyl windows regarding where I can drill for hidden sensors, and I was told any drilling voids the warranty. I'm using the tiny Tane surface mounts for windows in our unfinished walkout basement, but I'm not satisfied with their appearance. When I finish the lower level, I'll probably remove the Tanes and rely only on the GE glass breaks and Bosch PIRs I got from Automated Outlet.

 

[tmbrown97]

in re-reading steve's post, I don't think he was ever talking about the warranty on the door - I've never even heard of a warranty on a door that would matter... it's the windows we're talking about mostly. If any manufacturer cares about a change to a door, and I had to make a claim, I'd just pull the sensor, fill with wood putty and repaint, then call it in - they'd never know.

Warranty is an issue with the window though for the reasons I stated above, but you can always use something like the contact I showed and most likely still hide it (unless they have an issue with drilling the frame).

I wouldn't skip the perimeter protection though to rely on motions... the sooner they get scared off and you get alerted. I don't want to wait until they're in the middle of my living room to notice them - and in night mode, you have no protection at all. Even the deadbolt thing is a cool application for knowing if the door is locked, but I still want to know open/closed status. I also like the chimes so as the kids get old enough to walk, you know if the door is opened. And I may not always lock my windows, but I do close them and arm the system. Honestly, if someone wants to jimmy my window, I'd rather they try that first and set off the alarm then break the window and climb in then get caught by the motion.

 

[Photon]

Todd, you make a lot of sense. I'll rethink my ideas about the sash sensors on the double hung windows. Maybe I'll plan to keep them. I admit it is possible everyone else is right and I am wrong. Maybe. ;-)

In rereading this thread this morning, I see no concern about the door warranty except by me. Our front door is fiberglass, and the hole I drilled for the magnet triggered a delamination. I think I got it under control by temporarily removing the magnet and slathering epoxy into the laminations, but this failure came as a big surprise when I spotted it.

Regards. . . John

 

[tmbrown97]

Didn't think about the fiberglass doors - ours are wood, except for one steel... Rust may matter on the steel door, but hopefully water doesn't get up there.

 

[allen363]

I don't know how strong the magnetic field has to be in order to complete the circuit but it seems to me that we should be able to use something as shallow as 1/4" on the window frame itself that would stay away from the delicate seals of the argon glass, etc. Is this incorrect?

 

[allen363]

Does anybody have any experience with these contacts? http://www.alarmcontacts.com/product_info....;products_id=51

They look like they should be unobtrusive enough to use on windows without violating the warranty that states that as long as the glass housing hasn't been touched the warranty remains.

They also show a pill shaped contact to use in the track which looks interesting but I am not sure which would be better. Can anybody give me some feedback?

Thanks,
Allen