Smoke/CO and Elk/Insteon

[grtaylor]

I've been using 4 of the combined smoke/co First Alert Onelink for the last year or two coupled with the Insteon Smoke Bridge to turn all the lights on, get email notification etc, and that's all been fine up to now.
 
Now I have an Elk M1 and (think) I want to switch to using the Elk smoke/heat devices instead as Elk is battery backed, can dial out etc. The Elk sensors though are not CO detectors.
 
These are the questions going through my mind, and I'd appreciate any guidance or advice on what to do.
 
If I switch to Elk, I'll replace the First Alert devices as I don't need twice as many smokes, but now I need CO. I could link the CO detectors to Elk, but then it means either adding the GE wireless transceiver to Elk (I already have Elk wireless) and using something like a TX-6310. I could do that but adding another wireless device to Elk, not ideal, just for that is it? Cost is several hundred for transceiver and devices.
 
I could replace the combined smoke/CO's I have with CO only Onelink devices such as the CO511B and then carry on using Insteon for CO only. Then it's only when the power is out that I don't get the CO alerts. Maybe that's ok. Cost perhaps two hundred.
 
Any other solutions? Leave them all in for double layer protection and deafen the hell out of the family when they go off?

 

[Del91574]

Are you considering wireless only?

 

[grtaylor]

Yes, getting wire to all the locations I want the detectors would be very destructive.

 

[Del91574]

Does the house have existing 120V detectors?

 

[grtaylor]

In two of the locations I believe, but not all. significant remodeling went on and it appears that was one thing that got removed.

 

[Del91574]

Time to start pulling cable. Liability due to remodel and most insurers don't like things done improperly. Usually the AHJ would've caught something like that on a permitted job/remodel, so that would start a few questions in my mind at least.

 

[grtaylor]

I understand that's the correct solution if you were doing an install for someone, no question. So you wouldn't use wireless smokes such as the Elk units? Or any wireless heat/CO detectors? Reliability issues, or just gut feeling that wired is better (which it is in an ideal world, no question)? If I have 5 wireless Elk Smokes and 3 or 4 wireless CO detectors in one house outside the bedrooms, something will go off.
 
My primary goal here is family safety, not satisfying insurance (a house wired for 120V smokes will still burn to the ground if no-one gets there in time, and a standard install would not have any monitoring either of course). If these devices can be relied upon for alerting my family to a problem so they can get out, and ideally report back fires to the central station, great, but that's secondary.
 
I'm not arguing, just trying to justify my reluctance to dig open the walls as I can't really see any significant advantage to doing so if I have modern wireless detectors. Please help me understand that if you can.

 

[Del91574]

First is code compliance. The fact that units are "missing" would lead me to believe that significant work was done on the house unpermitted/inspected. That alone would open up a can of worms in the insurance world if something happened.
 
Second is reliability. Eliminates the battery replacement requirement. Also eliminates possible RF interference issues (they do arise, no matter whose system you install).
 
Third is eliminating the redundancy. For what it takes to pull a little cable, even a couple of holes with patching (a good electrician can wire a house with little or no collateral damage besides what is necessary). I'd put in System Sensor I4 units in the sleeping areas and then I3's where CO is not necessary. Simplifies the install, programming and adds a lot more to the system (clean me, walk test, etc.)

 

 

[grtaylor]

I did some digging. Three of the smokes are actually placed over 120 circuits, but are battery only units. So that's somewhat reassuring. Though these are just plain 120, so I still need wireless comms to let the panel know of an issue, all I'm really avoiding is the battery dependency.
 
Thanks again for the advice. I'll ponder on this some more I think.

 

[BaduFamily]

those System Sensor products look nice.
 
Anyone know of a similar 120V hard wired option? This would be a straight up replacement of hard wired units, with some kind of backchannel ( wireless, powerline ) back to a control.

 

[Del91574]

You're not going to find a compliant 120V unit easily. Too many variables. We've installed hundreds of Gentex, which are really the only units on the market that are close to compliant. Wouldn't even toss a powerline item into the mix.
 
The recommendation would be to see if the romex excludes any branch circuits and has at least 3 conductors and can be accessed via the existing panel. From there, I'd remove them from the HV circuit and change to LV (assuming the AHJ has no issues in doing such, but usually if you can explain the reason and end result, they're usually amicable).