Souring on zWave

[IVB]

Grrr. I got excited as I had some great success last night/this am with changing HA stuff, and moved the Intermatic USB stick to the thin HP client in the middle of my house as I was having some cxn issues with a few switches. it now has damn well near line of sight to some of my harder to reach modules.

I'm beginning to wonder if I have switch hardware issues, because in the past few months I have 2 switches that used to work just fine now acting up. Moving the USB stick didn't help at all.

I have to admit, i'm souring on zWave. I dunno if that's fair or not, maybe it's my lack of neutral, but at this point it certainly ain't distance or mesh strength. I don't really feel like swapping out zWave light switches that work manually but don't communicate well for other zWave light switches.

I may do my annual "what is the bare minimum cost for RadioRA I could try", and have both my legacy zWave and new RadioRA in the house. I would like to continue using fluorescent bulbs in many of the rooms, which might mean researching what the hell "Lutron Fluorescent Tu-Wire" is.

I don't need all the stuff in that car-visor package that twilo is selling, but it did give me some evil ideas...

 

[Sacarino]

Dumb question: did you optimize your network after you relocated your controller?

 

[twilo123]

i like zwave myself but if you want a deal on RA checkout my marketplace post.
i've had my share of burnouts for zwave mostly on intermatic appliance modules and act dimmers.
most companies will take a return if within the first year.

 

[IVB]

Dumb question: did you optimize your network after you relocated your controller?

It was setup as a secondary controller within CQC, so I had to relearn the whole network (aka, replicate it from my HA07 master).

 

[IVB]

i like zwave myself but if you want a deal on RA checkout my marketplace post.

Yeah, I saw it. I only need the switches and RF signal repeater though, i'll never need the car visor, entry module, or tabletop controller, so that bit is a waste for me.

 

[intozwave]

Haven't played with CQC - went and looked at their manual and what I see as far as support is:

"This driver supports the older style ACT USB/Serial controllers as well as the newer style Intermatic USB Stick controllers. The latter are far superior and we don't recommend the use of the ACT controllers. For that matter, we don't recommend the use of the ACT modules either, since the newer modules have benefited greatly from the improvements in technology and packaging of late. A system composed purely of newer hardware will likely be considerably more reliable and performant."

The Intermatic HA22C USB Stick was probably one of the first USB sticks on the market and they really haven't made any changes since it was introduced (old school at this point) The new ACT ZCU101 controller is leaps and bounds over the ZCU000 - the technology continues to be refined and expanded.

What devices are you having issues with? ACT has a 2-year warranty, HomeSettings has a 6-year warranty etc - Depending on what devices your having problems and how old they are - they can replaced or repaired. I have not had an issue with any manufacturer when I have run into a bad device.

 

[IVB]

Thanks for the reply. The HA06 switches don't reliably communicate back to the USB stick. I tried both ThinkEssentials (I have a license) and CQC, TE was even worse.

CQC doesn't support the new controller yet, if I could have a money-back guarantee about the Leviton stuff I would consider using the Elk-Leviton module but it feels like a hail mary and $63/switch is a lot for a hail mary. Sounds dumb, but i'd feel better about $140/switch for RadioRA that is nearly guaranteed to work (i've yet to hear of anyone with an issue with it, and there's a pretty decent install base).

 

[intozwave]

The HA06C are the first switch put out by HomeSettings - they really haven't made any changes since it was introduced (old school at this point again) Have not heard of that many going bad but they do. The newer HomeSettings Switches HA14C, HA18C and the HA20C are much better switches imho - support instant staus and associations and are still reasonable in price.

 

[IVB]

Yeah; same concerns for me there as the Leviton stuff; I don't see dozens to hundreds of folks testifying about their highly succesful experience, which means its another crapshoot. I suppose $40/each is slightly better, but a lack of reliability isn't what I had in mind when i went down this path.

 

[twilo123]

ivb the ra is in a sealed box and is sold as a package.
as far as zwave is concerned i have been using vizia 1st gen for over a year. i have 1 3way go flaky on me but it wound up being loose wiring. that being said i really don't like the physical style of the switches and like 2nd gen even less.

in fact i have yet to find a decent physical design on zwave light switches. it is ridiculous and my biggest problem with zwave. for some reason everyone is trying to redesign the physical portion of the light switch instead of concentrating on the logical functions of it with zwave.

the homesettings are the closest to normal switches but the dimmers need a side toggle not built in. the built in are a PITA especially for WAF since it is based on timing.

 

[intozwave]

I have 50 + plus Z-Wave devices in my place - ACT,Hawkings, HomeSettings, Intouch, Leviton and RCS - switches, receptacles, modules(appliance & dimmer) motion and door sensors and thermostats - I have had a couple of receptacles go bad(manufacturer replaced) and 1 dimmer switch(manufacturer replaced) have been working with the technology for 4 years - the reliability has gotten nothing but better and should continue too. :blink: Works very well for me.

 

[68sting]

I haver replaced my fair share of hao6 and act switches. I have not had problems with the network and its reliability has been flawless. The hardware has been my problem

 

[IVB]

what made you know you need to replace the switches? I wonder if mine are bad or partially bad, and I just don't know it.

 

[twilo123]

usually in switches it becomes communication issues. in my experience even 1 faulty z-wave device can through the whole network off. to top it off if you can't remove the faulty device 'exclude' it and have no method of rediscovering the network then you are eventually stuck having to rebuild the whole thing. remote inclusion will be key with the newer sis devices. i have been doing z-wave for about 3 years and have probably installed hundreds of devices; for the most part it is a good technology. it is in it's infancy and definitely needs some maturing but for the price and the ability to go retro easily i believe it is the best fit. my most faulty devices were (until i stopped using them) intermatic plugins (appliance or dimmer modules both). they burn out fast for me on 75w lamps alone. the leviton ones are rock solid though.

one of the biggest + and - of zwave is it's evolution. on one side it is great to see the technology alive and developing forward. at least you can look forward to the next device/unit to be z-wavized. on the downside there is such a real lack of regulation that no one is really sure which z-wave device does what. i.e. some devices support associations, some don't (and i am talking about the same TYPE of device just different models/manufacturers), some remotes support rediscovery some don't, etc. the list goes on. my 2nd biggest gripe i have had for 3 years has been lack of a good hvac remote control. that and the lack of a good front end UI for zwave (my opinion here) drove me to develop my own zwave application. for years the only handheld remote that could handle an hvac was ironically one of the first z-wave remotes on the market. other than hvac control i would through the remote in the garbage though.

just a lot of growing pains with zwave and from a coordination standpoint they need to get their act together IMO or some other technology like EnOcean for instance will just come along and build a better mousetrap so to speak.

that being said i still love controlling all of my devices on my iphone. UI is great thanks of course to the iphone sdk and iphone hardware. it just looks natural to use and so far has had great WAF too.

hopefully with the buyout of zensys will clear up a little instead of it being a wild wild west and everyone just throwing a zwave device against the wall and see what sticks. they need to drive a unified ecosystem for the technology, not a 'how do i differentiate myself from the herd' mentality that a lot of hardware developers are taking.

 

[intozwave]

Agreed - the technology is still in it's infancy - the newer devices from HomeSettings are much more reliable than the first round - the HA14C, HA18C and HA20C switches pertform much better than the HA06C switch. The second round of the z-wave modules by ACT are much better then it's first - I really like that they have a pass thru you don't lose the outlet and local control(big waf factor) - the technology is maturing slowly but it is maturing - one has to learn to walk before one can run. As I have stated before one of the things I like is I am not restricted to one manufacturer - you have choices. Can you imagine if you could only buy 1 brand of computer - as I sit here with 5 boxes from 4 different manufacturers - not me. With the buyout of ZenSys hopefully the technology and direction grow more quickly(it looks like a good synergey for the companies) time will tell. Z-Wave has been rock-solid in my place - I keep looking to the horizon for more and different devices to add to my automation