Structured Wiring Options

[broconne]

I am looking to start acquiring my structured wiring solutions via ebay for Phone/Video and maybe ethernet. I have decided I want to go with the cabinet approach instead of plywood. Although, I may mix the two a bit.

I am going to do mostly sage, so looking at this for simple Video: http://www.onqlegrand.com/products/364647
For POTS, I am considering: http://www.onqlegrand.com/products/1267062-01
For ethernet, I may use this rather than directly wiring to a switch: http://www.onqlegrand.com/products/AC1015

Are there other vendors besides OnQ that deserve consideration?

 

[Slates]

I am very entry level on this stuff, and just ordered this:
http://www.levitonproducts.com/catalog/mod...CE&pid=1208

I am going to use that for my legacy Cat5e wiring, both phone and data. Then I plan on using a nicer patch panel for anything new I wire (likely to be Cat6). I am fairly certain the Leviton product is very basic and no true automators would use it... but I am so new to this world that I need stuff that is simple B)

 

[electron]

I really like the Channel Vision structured wiring hardware. It tends to be much cheaper too.

 

[felixrosbergen]

I used Channelvision as well for POTS (actually not really POTS since the feed comes from Vonnage) but i like this module. This way you can plug your ELK RJ45 directly into that rather than use that RJX31 or whatever thing that comes with the ELK.

Broconne...from previous thread i seem to remember your install is huge with regards to numbers of wires, etc. You'll need many of these little little OnQ Cat6 panels and they will take up a bunch of space on your cabinets. Why not put a 19" Wallmount bracket on the wall and get a 24/48 port Cat5e or Cat6 patch panel (pictures of how i did this in my showcase, my patch panel is quickport based but you can get straight cat5 or 6 ones which are cheaper). Or if you plan 19" racks just put the patch panels directly in the rack and then you can patch from there to a rackmount switch.

Same thing with the coax..for the number of runs you'll end up width i think you will have a whole bunch of cabinets just full of coax and cat5/6 terminations and no active components. 19" patch panels will be cheaper and much denser i think. I don't know if a thing such as a 19" patch panel for coax exists, but you could use the quickport panel i use with all F-Type ports or you can make something up from a metal strip and a whole bunch of barrel F connectors. I can't remember who but somebody on the forums did that and it seems to work fine.

Almost forgot...rememer that Legrand/OnQ modules have different 'pins' than Channelvision and Leviton. I wrote a thread on this forum about this...unless you mainly plan to have Legrand/OnQ module i think channelvision is the best cabinet since it accepts Leviton as well and can take a Legrand/OnQ with some minor drilling/enlarging of the holes.

 

[hucker]

I really like the Channel Vision structured wiring hardware. It tends to be much cheaper too.

I looked for channel vision stuff but it looks like it is only Cat5, not Cat5e. I'm using a pair of these:

http://www.homenetworkgear.com/catalog/mod...C8&pid=1207

They don't look as clean as some of the sturctured wiring options but they are cheap on ebay and they work just fine.

I'd buy something from CV or On-Q but $150 or more for 24 ports seems pretty pricey for such a simple piece of equipment.

 

[sic0048]

Using structured wiring devices can make for a nice clean installation, but generally you are going to pay more for this "finished" look.

For video, you can use a simple 4x1 splitter. If you need a lot more connections, then perhaps look at one of the amplified splitters (channel vision makes a 16x1 version for example).

For POTs - you can use a regular cat5e patch panel, but have the telephone input come to the back of the patch panel and wire the correct pins down the entire length of the panel. Then you simply have to plug a patch cord into the front of the panel and connect it to the cat5e patch panel where all your cat5e wires are terminated. Depending on the number of telephones you have, this can be a much cheaper solution than buying several structured wire devices.

 

[broconne]

Broconne...from previous thread i seem to remember your install is huge with regards to numbers of wires, etc. You'll need many of these little little OnQ Cat6 panels and they will take up a bunch of space on your cabinets. Why not put a 19" Wallmount bracket on the wall and get a 24/48 port Cat5e or Cat6 patch panel (pictures of how i did this in my showcase, my patch panel is quickport based but you can get straight cat5 or 6 ones which are cheaper). Or if you plan 19" racks just put the patch panels directly in the rack and then you can patch from there to a rackmount switch.

I like the idea on the wallmount bracket.

Same thing with the coax..for the number of runs you'll end up width i think you will have a whole bunch of cabinets just full of coax and cat5/6 terminations and no active components. 19" patch panels will be cheaper and much denser i think. I don't know if a thing such as a 19" patch panel for coax exists, but you could use the quickport panel i use with all F-Type ports or you can make something up from a metal strip and a whole bunch of barrel F connectors. I can't remember who but somebody on the forums did that and it seems to work fine.

That is another good point.. I am really not sure what I am going to do coax wise.. I have zero runs of coax currently -- just pipe chases everywhere.. So when I start I will only have coax runs to the attic for Antenna and DishN down to the wiring room, where I plan to hook it up to sage and then ethernet to the TV locations..

Almost forgot...rememer that Legrand/OnQ modules have different 'pins' than Channelvision and Leviton. I wrote a thread on this forum about this...unless you mainly plan to have Legrand/OnQ module i think channelvision is the best cabinet since it accepts Leviton as well and can take a Legrand/OnQ with some minor drilling/enlarging of the holes.

Well, I am doing ALC/OnQ lighting.. So I will have at least one OnQ can (It doesn't make sense to drill out an enter can I don't think).

But it sounds like I can go with Channelvision for POTS/Video and maybe ethernet(after I count the runs -- most of my ethernet runs are lighting related).

 

[Neurorad]

I would think that with all of the lighting that a high density patchy panel would be necessary. How many runs of catx will you have, for lighting?

I am using Leviton Quickport 12-port patch blocks. $30 each, + 12 Quickport connectors - ~$90/12 ports.

Edit - You could probably avoid using patch panels for lighting, as your lighting will never change. Punch down (or plug in) directly into the OnQ ALC modules.

Will you use an ethernet switch for the LAN? Or maybe a router/switch combo, with 8-12 ports? Dan has a nice setup - CV makes a universal holder that fits his Netgear switch nicely (I copied him B) - thanks again, Dan).

 

[broconne]

I would think that with all of the lighting that a high density patchy panel would be necessary. How many runs of catx will you have, for lighting?

I am using Leviton Quickport 12-port patch blocks. $30 each, + 12 Quickport connectors - ~$90/12 ports.

Edit - You could probably avoid using patch panels for lighting, as your lighting will never change. Punch down (or plug in) directly into the OnQ ALC modules.

Correct, I will punch down directly to the ALC modules for that cat5.

Will you use an ethernet switch for the LAN? Or maybe a router/switch combo, with 8-12 ports? Dan has a nice setup - CV makes a universal holder that fits his Netgear switch nicely (I copied him B) - thanks again, Dan).

I will be using a switch. I think I want a managed switch, not for anything like advanced vlan support, but I want SNMP and advanced web management (port settings, I want to see when I get errors, etc) - I had a switch before that was bad but still worked, took me forever to figure out why I was getting such bad throughput when moving files around my last house.
In the mean time (since managed switches are expensive), I have 3 8 port netgears 10/100/1000 switches I can use. Do you have a link or a part number for the CV item you are talking about that can hold a netgear switch?

For routing, I will use a linux based router with IPTables support - just what I am used to.

 

[Neurorad]

The Netgear GS116 fits into the CV 1312 Large Univesal Product Holder nearly perfectly, though the switch takes up a lot of real estate in the enclosure.

This is a pic of Dan's (hope you don't mind me sharing, Dan).
Viewed from above, back of enclosure to the right. ~5 mm space between the switch and the lateral edge of the CV holder, on each side.

I just found Dan's gallery pic - much better
Dan's other pic
Check the comments under that gallery pic, for some Velcro options.

I've realized, in the last few days, why Dan has the switch positioned at the bottom of the can - running cables along the sides of the switch is difficult - not much room.

Have you considered rack options, for the managed switch?

If you're eventually heading that route, industrial Velcro squares may be better, affixing the switches to the back of the enclosure. These product holding devices are really expensive.

Edit - maybe you should invest in the product holders - then I can buy them cheaply from you, when you're done with them. B)

 

[broconne]

The Netgear GS116 fits into the CV 1312 Large Univesal Product Holder nearly perfectly, though the switch takes up a lot of real estate in the enclosure.

This is a pic of Dan's (hope you don't mind me sharing, Dan).
Viewed from above, back of enclosure to the right. ~5 mm space between the switch and the lateral edge of the CV holder, on each side.
I just found Dan's gallery pic - much better
Dan's other pic
Check the comments under that gallery pic, for some Velcro options.

I've realized, in the last few days, why Dan has the switch positioned at the bottom of the can - running cables along the sides of the switch is difficult - not much room.

Have you considered rack options, for the managed switch?

If you're eventually heading that route, industrial Velcro squares may be better, affixing the switches to the back of the enclosure. These product holding devices are really expensive.

Edit - maybe you should invest in the product holders - then I can buy them cheaply from you, when you're done with them. B)

Heh -
I work at a large computer company. I grabbed a 7ft rack during the last "scrap drive". It is sitting in my office waiting for them to finish the house.

 

[Neurorad]

Holding onto real estate in the enclosure is a challenge - if you'll have a rack, put everything you can into that.

 

[pete_c]

I had the opportunity to use standard height racks a "few" times in the last 20 years or so and decided not too. My comm closet in the house is basically one corner in the basement near other utilities - IE water heater, furnace etc. I didn't really want to do something that would occupy a lot of real estate. But reviewed those options. The first one was getting the rack in the basement. I had peers that would help me but none the less once it was there it was going to stay. I entertained managed switches but decided to use smaller multiport (16-24) switches which would fit in a multimedia 42 inch cabinet. Thinking that I would never really expand out of the 42" cabinet I tried to fit everything inside of it. I couldn't. So inside of the media cabinet I have some basics which is just telephone and network via small patch panels. I put RG6 throughout the home and built a separate wall board just for this. I have expanded out of the basic patched networking cables into a separate server rack. This is your standard wire 4 shelf on wheels rack. Behind it and on the wall is another patch panel and switch. One of the things that I also noticed (and previously in IT never really paid attention) was how difficult it could be to mount rack style pizza box servers. The footprint is small as the weight is better but still not a one person job to slide a heavy server onto the tracks very easily. Switches are easy though. I do like the idea of an open rack with shelves though not really that movable and a couple of these open racks are easier to work with but more expensive to purchase "stuff for" and after a time they can get a bit spaghetti like.

For the media cabinet and outside of it I stuck to mostly Leviton. Patch panels for telephone and network are inside the 42" Leviton cabinet. I also purchased Leviton amplified splitters combo satellite but expanded beyond that to a point where I went to the "plywood" cuz it was just easier to work with RG6. IE for cameras when to a separate power supply with multiple connections in a small cabinet (this wouldn't really fit inside of the 42" cabinet). Since my initial installation I have expanded my networking out of the media cabinet to two more 24 port patch panels and two more switches. The only thing which stayed the same and I am still using is the telephone (Leviton) patch panel with only 12 connections. I have expanded the telephones though beyond copper. Initially starting with two copper lines but now at one copper, two voip and still using the same Leviton patch panel. The basement is currently unfinished but my prepping will allow for a utility room that will include base house utilities and HA utilities in a small footprint. This room will be about 10 foot by 10 foot or so and the basement will still have ample space for a media room, pool room, full bathroom, computer / project workroom and walk in pantry sometime in the future.

 

[broconne]

Sorry to dig up and old topic here - but I am trying to figure out what to have ready for move in and still a bit unclear on what I need/should have for TV distribution here. I am also trying to lay out what goes in which can and how much space to leave so I can figure out what size cans to buy.

For telephone, I snagged some OnQ stuff from ebay - so I think I am set there.

Here are my requirements.

Cable TV
(1) On move-in support 2 Series 3 TiVos and one Cable modem.
(2) In the future support 1 or 2 cable boxes for Sage.
-- Can I do that with a 1x6 Passive Video Module? It doesn't mention CATV only satellite. Do I want 2Ghz? Do I need to pair it with a video engine? Or a bi-directional amp? What is the difference?

Antenna -- to be placed in the attic
(1) Future support for an HDHomeRun for Sage
(2) Potential to distribute HDTV directly to some TVs.
-- I know I can put the HDHR next to the antenna - but I would prefer to keep all that stuff in the basement. Do I just duplicate the setup I have for CATV?

Satellite
(1) Future support for two R5000 Dish boxes for sage.
-- I really have no idea here.. Do I need a multiswitch? Or do I just need the same splitter setup I have for Antenna/CATV?

Security
(1) Hopefully I can distribute this via sage in someway...

 

[windmiller]

Thanks for posting this Neororad!

I've got a 28 inch ONQ enclosure in a newly finished home and it is a mess. I want to organize the wiring but am not sure if the Channelvision universal holders will work on my ONQ enclosure.


It doesnt look like ONq makes anything like this and CV products seem to be priced well.

Any feedback would be appreciated :unsure: