Suggested HA lighting (friend building a home)

[picta]

These pro-sumer type solutions are apparently just more situationally sensitive, so you might have no issues you might have issues. And the problem is you won't know until you have commited to it enough to find out.

I guess at least with the more upper-crusty solutions is that you can be pretty sure you won't have issues, and if you do there's only one vendor to communicate with (aka yell at) about it to try to figure it out.

I think this comment sums it up really well.

But it is difficult for people who never had house automation before to commit to a (relatively) expensive pro solution, so they go with the seemingly equivalent entry line. Then after experiencing all the issues they may wish to upgrade, if they get a second chance.

 

[picta]

It is comments like these about Zwave and UPB that lead me to look at something more robust but I'd prefer not to run retrofit wiring for lighting control in my house. Right now I am strongly considering RadioRA 2 as a fairly robust radio based retrofit technology. HAI and Elk have support for RadioRA 2 but HA software doesn't seem to have drivers. However, the commands to turn on/off lights and get status are pretty easy text commands and Lutron has documented the protocol. One problem with RadioRA 2 is that you need their software and you have to go through some training (BLAST) hoops to get access to that software.

David

I never tried RadioRA, but the comments I have read seem to indicate it is a good product. I really like the look of their switches, but they do make you jump through hoops to get their product for DIY. My friend has recently installed centralite jetstream in 1500 sf house, and it is working well. It gives instant status update on both loads and switches, the software is free to download and easy to use. Not as nice looking switches as RadioRA, but the price tag is almost 50% less. I know HAI supports it, but not sure about Elk.

 

[dgage]

Thanks picta. I just did some research on Centralite Jetstream and I could see myself using it except for one concern that I read from a 2010 post, which said they hadn't seen anything new since 2008. Well, 2 years later this is even more concerning, especially when you see the documentation and software on their site hasn't been updated since 2008. It basically looks like they brought out a good product but don't have plans to do anything else with it.

The more I learn about HA, the more frustrating it is. Being in the technology field, I just won't go with something unless it seems to have a future.

UPB is a good technology but not much is happening there. Controller support could definitely be better. Pulseworx seems to be letting UPB die, which is a shame as many users say it just works except for some with power line noise.

Zwave is popular but fragmented and network seems fragile if a device fails (general statement based on my reading of user issues). One poster characterized Zwave as a good protocol but not reliable enough for lighting. I'm sure many users have no issues but larger networks are more susceptible.

Zigbee doesn't really have much in the way of lighting options...yet?

Centralite Jetstream looks nice but is proprietary Zigbee and doesn't seem like we will see future products.

Lutron RadioRA 2 seems like a solid proprietary wireless system with a variety of products and more coming out (fan control in Dec). Unfortunately, they are not DIY friendly and you need their software and they make end-users jump through hoops. HAI and Elk have support but HA software/controllers likely won't support their documented protocol. Homeseer had support for RadioRA (1) but dropped it.

So for wireless, have I captured the main ones?

What about hard wired? Any good DIY options there that aren't too expensive?

David

 

[drvnbysound]

Thanks picta. I just did some research on Centralite Jetstream and I could see myself using it except for one concern that I read from a 2010 post, which said they hadn't seen anything new since 2008. Well, 2 years later this is even more concerning, especially when you see the documentation and software on their site hasn't been updated since 2008. It basically looks like they brought out a good product but don't have plans to do anything else with it.

The more I learn about HA, the more frustrating it is. Being in the technology field, I just won't go with something unless it seems to have a future.

UPB is a good technology but not much is happening there. Controller support could definitely be better. Pulseworx seems to be letting UPB die, which is a shame as many users say it just works except for some with power line noise.

Zwave is popular but fragmented and network seems fragile if a device fails (general statement based on my reading of user issues). One poster characterized Zwave as a good protocol but not reliable enough for lighting. I'm sure many users have no issues but larger networks are more susceptible.

Zigbee doesn't really have much in the way of lighting options...yet?

Centralite Jetstream looks nice but is proprietary Zigbee and doesn't seem like we will see future products.

Lutron RadioRA 2 seems like a solid proprietary wireless system with a variety of products and more coming out (fan control in Dec). Unfortunately, they are not DIY friendly and you need their software and they make end-users jump through hoops. HAI and Elk have support but HA software/controllers likely won't support their documented protocol. Homeseer had support for RadioRA (1) but dropped it.

So for wireless, have I captured the main ones?

What about hard wired? Any good DIY options there that aren't too expensive?

David

Yeah, I'm very interested to know more of the future of UPB. With Leviton's purchase of HAI, I wish I knew if their long term plans were to continue to support it, or if they are going to drop it in favor of Vizia RF+.

I've debated switching my lighting to UPB and leaving a Zwave network in place to support my Kwikset locks, but haven't been able to force myself to make a decision one way or another just yet. I don't have any issues with my Zwave lighting, it works and I haven't had any missed messages... but the dimmers I have just don't support the automatic 2-way messages, so their status is updated (ELK) when they are used via remote or locally.

 

[dgage]

Can someone please let me know if I am correct in finding a Leviton ViziaRF+ Zwave dimming switch for LEDs for $180+? Really? Please tell me they have a less expensive, simple dimming switch for LEDs because that just seems damn ridiculous and makes the RadioRA and others look inexpensive now. Thanks.

UPB may not be perfect but at least their switches by and large work well with LEDs. I dont know how you can push a lighting technology as "green" if most of a companies switches dont work with LED lights.

David

 

[picta]

Thanks picta. I just did some research on Centralite Jetstream and I could see myself using it except for one concern that I read from a 2010 post, which said they hadn't seen anything new since 2008. Well, 2 years later this is even more concerning, especially when you see the documentation and software on their site hasn't been updated since 2008. It basically looks like they brought out a good product but don't have plans to do anything else with it.

They have introduced a new product called Azelia last year, it uses standard zigbee protocol. My understanding is it can be programmed by the same software as JetStream. The wireless line seems to be centralite's complimentary product, their main one is the hard-wired and that line has been expanded greatly. I have Elegance installed in my house and after being spoiled by the experience I would not want to go back to wireless. It is by no means a DIY product, but if you can find a smart electrician you can work with, it is absolutely doable and cost about the same per load as a high end wireless, but with a lot more functionality. If you have a big project, the cost will be even less. For a small project that uses less than 40 devices, it will be an overkill.

 

[picta]

Can someone please let me know if I am correct in finding a Leviton ViziaRF+ Zwave dimming switch for LEDs for $180+? Really? Please tell me they have a less expensive, simple dimming switch for LEDs because that just seems damn ridiculous and makes the RadioRA and others look inexpensive now. Thanks.

UPB may not be perfect but at least their switches by and large work well with LEDs. I dont know how you can push a lighting technology as "green" if most of a companies switches dont work with LED lights.

David

Many LED lights will work with the regular dimmers, you do not necessarily have to shell $$ for the special purpose one. That one will be your last resort if you happen to have an unusual LED transformer, or you want to dim your LED light to very low levels like 5-10%.

 

[dgage]

Thanks picta. I appreciate the good information about the switches and Elegance. I'll check out Elegance as I have an unfinished basement and attic access. I mean, how much damage could a little wiring job do honey? . I say that because I make the holes in the drywall and I've trained my wife to clean up after me. She's really good at patching drywall holes now from a previous whole-home Ethernet project.

 

[dgage]

picta,

I think I know the answer to this since things can never be as simple as I'd like, especially with one of my "projects". Based on my quick reading, installing Elegance doesn't seem to be as easy as simply running low-voltage control wires to each switch. It seems that you also have to redo the electrical wiring to each switch as well. Is that correct? Thanks.

David

 

[drvnbysound]

picta,

I think I know the answer to this since things can never be as simple as I'd like, especially with one of my "projects". Based on my quick reading, installing Elegance doesn't seem to be as easy as simply running low-voltage control wires to each switch. It seems that you also have to redo the electrical wiring to each switch as well. Is that correct? Thanks.

David

I believe so... based on the information I saw, it's not really a retrofit solution. I believe all the [electrical] wiring is centralized, and the switches/dimmers/controls are just LV devices... but this is solely based on me looking at 1 document - I have no actual experience with it.

 

[drvnbysound]

Thanks picta. I appreciate the good information about the switches and Elegance. I'll check out Elegance as I have an unfinished basement and attic access. I mean, how much damage could a little wiring job do honey? . I say that because I make the holes in the drywall and I've trained my wife to clean up after me. She's really good at patching drywall holes now from a previous whole-home Ethernet project.

This is awesome! My wife hates when I cut drywall... I end up doing all the cutting, patching, sanding, painting, etc... but she HATES the amount of dust it makes

 

[dgage]

Procrastination, I mean prioritization has its benefits. Guess what happened when I didn't paint a room for several weeks? Yep, she painted the room instead of me. And then there was the time I had to go out of town and asked her to complete the brick and mortar knee-wall after I repaired some water damage. She does good work too but only if I am clear on my instructions, which usually I cover well but not always.

Drvnbysound, I came to the same conclusion about the wiring structure so it looks like that is a no go. At least it explains to me when I was wondering how they combined the low voltage and high voltage in the same junction box...they don't. Thanks.

David

 

[drvnbysound]

Procrastination, I mean prioritization has its benefits. Guess what happened when I didn't paint a room for several weeks? Yep, she painted the room instead of me. And then there was the time I had to go out of town and asked her to complete the brick and mortar knee-wall after I repaired some water damage. She does good work too but only if I am clear on my instructions, which usually I cover well but not always.

Drvnbysound, I came to the same conclusion about the wiring structure so it looks like that is a no go. At least it explains to me when I was wondering how they combined the low voltage and high voltage in the same junction box...they don't. Thanks.

David

Yeah, a standard dimmer/switch with a RJ-45 connection for control would be great, right?!? I'm assuming that it's b/c of NEC reasons that this isn't done (??), but it sure would be NICE!

 

[tmbrown97]

I mean, how much damage could a little wiring job do honey? . I say that because I make the holes in the drywall and I've trained my wife to clean up after me. She's really good at patching drywall holes now from a previous whole-home Ethernet project.

That's awesome! My wife is great in that she handles demo like a pro - and the detail work that I can't stand, she takes on like a champ. And when I destroy the walls, she's right behind me with a vacuum - if I so much as open the Attic access, she vacuums a good section of the upstairs. My wife will never do the finish work, and in fact, she questions my ability too... Prefers I hire it out (though I never have yet).

 

[picta]

picta,

I think I know the answer to this since things can never be as simple as I'd like, especially with one of my "projects". Based on my quick reading, installing Elegance doesn't seem to be as easy as simply running low-voltage control wires to each switch. It seems that you also have to redo the electrical wiring to each switch as well. Is that correct? Thanks.

David

Elegance is not a retrofit solution, it uses home run high voltage wiring. It is only suitable when you have open walls, like building a new house (this thread's original topic ^_^