Tell me it isn't so ....
- Thread starter Rupp
- Start date
WARNING: The following message is based entirely on supposition. I don't know anything about the stuff I'm talking about.
I don't know anything about this, but it does kind of make sense. X10 thermostats mostly work by taking advantage of multiple codes - a single house code and many device codes are used to control the thermostat (I think). It's really a kind of hack.
I would hope that the ZWave devices are set up to allow more varied data to be sent to the devices (e.g., temperature set points as numerical values). The potential is that many different devices would take different types of data. In order for the remote to handle this, it would need to know all the different types of data that could be sent. As new devices came out, the remote would need to be updated to handle this. This could get pretty messy - unless the remote is smart and the devices are able to tell it about themselves. If they want things to be easy, then the remote would essentially need to be able to create a reasonable user interface (display) for any possible device. If it can't download this kind of information from the device itself, then it would either need to be updated or replaced
I also hope that this is not an issue with computer <-> Zwave interfaces (like the one used by HS). Once the device has been identified (by the remote) and set in the interface, maybe the interface is able to send any command necessary - since the remote is not required for this, maybe there won't be any problems.
I don't know anything about this, but it does kind of make sense. X10 thermostats mostly work by taking advantage of multiple codes - a single house code and many device codes are used to control the thermostat (I think). It's really a kind of hack.
I would hope that the ZWave devices are set up to allow more varied data to be sent to the devices (e.g., temperature set points as numerical values). The potential is that many different devices would take different types of data. In order for the remote to handle this, it would need to know all the different types of data that could be sent. As new devices came out, the remote would need to be updated to handle this. This could get pretty messy - unless the remote is smart and the devices are able to tell it about themselves. If they want things to be easy, then the remote would essentially need to be able to create a reasonable user interface (display) for any possible device. If it can't download this kind of information from the device itself, then it would either need to be updated or replaced
I also hope that this is not an issue with computer <-> Zwave interfaces (like the one used by HS). Once the device has been identified (by the remote) and set in the interface, maybe the interface is able to send any command necessary - since the remote is not required for this, maybe there won't be any problems.
mbreeden
Active Member
What scares me is what happens when Levition or Intermatic come out with there new products, will we need their remote or another upgrade to handle their switches/devices. I would like to see that the remotes are upgradeable via downloads, etc. I just can not see paying @60.00 everytime a new device hits the market.
Just my 2 cents
-Mike
Just my 2 cents
-Mike
Squintz
Senior Member
Rupp,
Word on the streets is only 50% correct. I have been doing a ton of research latley on Z-wave and i will have a extensive review/tutorial all about the new remotes and transmitters comming out. This review is half way written already and i will probably finish the other half tomorrow. By time i edit it and submit it the weekend will be here. So if you want to know the full story about all this stuff wait a few more days.
For now i can tell you this. The new remotes DO allow you to add the Z-wave Thermostats to your Z-wave network. It states this very clearly about 5 times in the manual for the version 1.24 remotes. However, eventhough you can add the thermostat to your network you wont be able to controll it with the 1.24 remote.
The reason for this is because the current remotes only send basic On/Off and Dim commands. Before i blow this thing out of context im gonna quote the manual.
So as you can see from that quote it looks like its not supported because it doesnt need to be supported. It doesnt mention anywhere in the book that you will need a new remote when the thermostat becomes available. Also since the thermostat is so close to becomming available and is finished its testing phase i would think that they would have included everything you need in this remote since they pratically were released around the same time. The thermostats were announced a few weeks ago.
Maybe someone should invite a homepro guy to one of our weekly meetings and see if we cant convince them to add USB support or maybe even some type of PDA Like cradle support.
Word on the streets is only 50% correct. I have been doing a ton of research latley on Z-wave and i will have a extensive review/tutorial all about the new remotes and transmitters comming out. This review is half way written already and i will probably finish the other half tomorrow. By time i edit it and submit it the weekend will be here. So if you want to know the full story about all this stuff wait a few more days.
For now i can tell you this. The new remotes DO allow you to add the Z-wave Thermostats to your Z-wave network. It states this very clearly about 5 times in the manual for the version 1.24 remotes. However, eventhough you can add the thermostat to your network you wont be able to controll it with the 1.24 remote.
The reason for this is because the current remotes only send basic On/Off and Dim commands. Before i blow this thing out of context im gonna quote the manual.
So as you can see from that quote it looks like its not supported because it doesnt need to be supported. It doesnt mention anywhere in the book that you will need a new remote when the thermostat becomes available. Also since the thermostat is so close to becomming available and is finished its testing phase i would think that they would have included everything you need in this remote since they pratically were released around the same time. The thermostats were announced a few weeks ago.
Maybe someone should invite a homepro guy to one of our weekly meetings and see if we cant convince them to add USB support or maybe even some type of PDA Like cradle support.
If it becomes the case that you need to keep acquiring new remotes, then I expect Zwave will not succeed - except for people that only automate a couple lights. Not only will you accumulate a pile of remotes (just like your home entertainment stuff), but you will need that pile in multiple rooms.
I don't expect that to be the case. I expect that someone has given some thought to this.
However, as long as a PC or other controller is able to control any device, this should not be a showstopping issue anyway. If you want to control devices with a remote, you just use the remote to send some selected signal to the PC - the PC then sends the appropriate Zwave command. This remote could be as simple as an x10 palmpad - use x10 RF to send a command and Zwave RF to control devices.
For most devices other than lights, the control is complicated enough to warrant a dedicated display (on the device, a web page, touchscreen program, etc.). Except for really simple thermostat operations, a remote may not be sufficient anyway.
Now, if you need to buy a new remote each time you add a new device (that wasn't out previously or comes from a new manufacturer) things will get expensive. I'd like to see the requirement for a remote removed altogether. The interface connected to the PC should be able to add new devices. The whole remote thing seems like it was set up under the assumption that people would only use things the way many have used x10 - a few lights here and there as a novelty.
I don't expect that to be the case. I expect that someone has given some thought to this.
However, as long as a PC or other controller is able to control any device, this should not be a showstopping issue anyway. If you want to control devices with a remote, you just use the remote to send some selected signal to the PC - the PC then sends the appropriate Zwave command. This remote could be as simple as an x10 palmpad - use x10 RF to send a command and Zwave RF to control devices.
For most devices other than lights, the control is complicated enough to warrant a dedicated display (on the device, a web page, touchscreen program, etc.). Except for really simple thermostat operations, a remote may not be sufficient anyway.
Now, if you need to buy a new remote each time you add a new device (that wasn't out previously or comes from a new manufacturer) things will get expensive. I'd like to see the requirement for a remote removed altogether. The interface connected to the PC should be able to add new devices. The whole remote thing seems like it was set up under the assumption that people would only use things the way many have used x10 - a few lights here and there as a novelty.
Rupp
Senior Member
Squintz,
Brian is a retailer and he is the one that put the word on the street.
http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=79107
Brian is a retailer and he is the one that put the word on the street.
http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=79107
Squintz
Senior Member
Rupp,
I like brian and all but i know he gets his products from martin. So hes not a direct retailer. I only trust a few sources of information. HomeSeer, because they always seem to know what they are talking about from a tech point of view. Martin, because he is a "go getter" andi know he digs deep for the right answers, and the manufatures themselves. Such as Art from intermatic, of the reps of Zen-Sys and HomePro. Until i here it from those sources i don't ever sweat it. I'll ask brian where he got his info from and like i said i dont think his info is inaccurate but its not complete with details. Only a phone call to a HomePro Rep will clear it all up.
I like brian and all but i know he gets his products from martin. So hes not a direct retailer. I only trust a few sources of information. HomeSeer, because they always seem to know what they are talking about from a tech point of view. Martin, because he is a "go getter" andi know he digs deep for the right answers, and the manufatures themselves. Such as Art from intermatic, of the reps of Zen-Sys and HomePro. Until i here it from those sources i don't ever sweat it. I'll ask brian where he got his info from and like i said i dont think his info is inaccurate but its not complete with details. Only a phone call to a HomePro Rep will clear it all up.
Rupp
Senior Member
Squintz,
Not trying to argue with you here but Brian made a point the other day, on the HS BB, that he does not buy his wares from Martin but rather directly from the manufacturer as Martin does. Knowing this I believe he may have an inside track on the products he sells. Either way I'm going to wait before getting another new remote unless I can trade mine in with Martin. Then it's a no cost or low cost trade out. I really do not need the new remote unless it's required for the forth coming 3 way switches.
Not trying to argue with you here but Brian made a point the other day, on the HS BB, that he does not buy his wares from Martin but rather directly from the manufacturer as Martin does. Knowing this I believe he may have an inside track on the products he sells. Either way I'm going to wait before getting another new remote unless I can trade mine in with Martin. Then it's a no cost or low cost trade out. I really do not need the new remote unless it's required for the forth coming 3 way switches.
To clear things up this was stated directly from ACT's Distributor in this copy of a email.
"Brian is correct, the V.1.24 remotes will NOT work with the T-stats. They will work with the ZTW100 wall transmitters.
As for upgrades word came down from ACT last week that there is no upgrade policy. People will have to buy new remotes."
I'm not happy about any of this and refuse to buy until the support thermostats.
"Brian is correct, the V.1.24 remotes will NOT work with the T-stats. They will work with the ZTW100 wall transmitters.
As for upgrades word came down from ACT last week that there is no upgrade policy. People will have to buy new remotes."
I'm not happy about any of this and refuse to buy until the support thermostats.
Squintz
Senior Member
Thanks for that brian. Sounds like he is saying that using a ZTW100 you can turn the tempature down and up but not with the remotes.
I can't believe they are not offering an upgrade policy. I probably wont buy their T-Stat because of this. And if i get my x10 motion sensors working i probably wont but those from them either. They need to come up with an upgrade policy or they are going to lose a ton of buisness. Its only a software upgrade so it wouldnt cost them much. Maybe if enough of us complain they will change their mind.
I can't believe they are not offering an upgrade policy. I probably wont buy their T-Stat because of this. And if i get my x10 motion sensors working i probably wont but those from them either. They need to come up with an upgrade policy or they are going to lose a ton of buisness. Its only a software upgrade so it wouldnt cost them much. Maybe if enough of us complain they will change their mind.
mbreeden
Active Member
I am w/Squintz, I will not buy any of their new product line. I think smee stated it earlier, that it looks like we will need to buy new remotes every time a new product/feature hits the market. I think it is a bad decision by ACT to not have a easy way to upgrade the remote and not offer a refund/upgrade policy to existing users. Major turn-off. I will write them to express my displeasure.
- mike
- mike
Similar threads
- Article
