Thermostat control for an apartment building?

[signal15]

My dad owns a four-plex. He pays the heat in the building because it's a central boiler system and he's required by law to cover it if there's no way to accurately split it up. Each apartment has a separate thermostat, and when heat is called for, the boiler switches on if it's not already, and a solenoid valve opens that pipes the hot water to the baseboard radiators in the apartment. Pretty common design.

The problem is, renters have a thermostat. They turn the heat up to 80 degrees and then leave the windows open because it's too hot. Heating bills are $500+ a month. Obviously, the cheap option is to put a $20-30 lockbox around the thermostat and set it at 68F (required state minimum for landlord controlled heat).

But I was thinking, it would be nice to be able to sense occupancy of the apartment and turn the heat down, and also be able to monitor remotely. My first thoughts were Insteon or Zwave thermostats, and then one of the devices to link it to the network so it could be monitored or programmed remotely. Set up a motion sensor in the living room of each apartment, and if there's no motion for 2 hours, turn the heat down to 60F. Here's what I would want the system to do:

- Be able to manage remotely. (internet connection in building)
- Don't allow the renter to turn the heat above 70F, or if they do, it immediately turns it back down
- Turn the heat down to 60F automatically when there is no motion in the main room for 2 hours
- optionally turn it down to 50F if there is no motion for something like 24 hours
- If the outside temperature is greater than the indoor temperature, disallow heat

Looks like a VERA and some $42 Z-wave thermostats are going to be the way to go. Thoughts?

 

[tmbrown97]

I have a feeling the occupancy sensors are going to be the tricky part... because of all the logic - but what about limiting the max temp to 75 degrees and turning the system off if any windows are open? That seems fair enough - it's how a lot of hotels operate.

 

[signal15]

I have a feeling the occupancy sensors are going to be the tricky part... because of all the logic - but what about limiting the max temp to 75 degrees and turning the system off if any windows are open? That seems fair enough - it's how a lot of hotels operate.

Then I have to spend money on window sensors, and there are at least 10 windows in each apartment. 4 apartments is 40 window sensors.

I think it's reasonable to assume that if there's no motion in the main room for 2 hours, then no one is home, or they have gone to sleep.

 

[Del91574]

Not to come down on an integration idea, but no matter how slick a solution you may think up, you can't change human nature. I can see the tennants doing all they can to modify/change/access the T-stats if they don't do as they want, with the final thing being them getting broken by a tennant....we see it all the time in the commercial end of the controls business. Your idea seems nice on paper until it's viewed as "big brother" by those in the apartments and I could forsee some complaint or worse, depending on your state.

I'd look into locking down the T-stats, possibly also improve the boiler's performance by having the outside air temp monitored and run a control board that anticipates the load and only fires the boiler accordingly.

You could also put a governor on the T-stat wiring to open the circuit at anything above 75* air temp in the apt.

Barring all of that, how about getting rid of the T-stats and only wiring thermal switches in the apartments, using remote sensors to T-stats installed in the "landlord" area of the building. Plenty of stats on the market that take remote probes, then program the stats to run a 5 or 7 day program.

 

[signal15]

Not to come down on an integration idea, but no matter how slick a solution you may think up, you can't change human nature. I can see the tennants doing all they can to modify/change/access the T-stats if they don't do as they want, with the final thing being them getting broken by a tennant....we see it all the time in the commercial end of the controls business. Your idea seems nice on paper until it's viewed as "big brother" by those in the apartments and I could forsee some complaint or worse, depending on your state.

I'd look into locking down the T-stats, possibly also improve the boiler's performance by having the outside air temp monitored and run a control board that anticipates the load and only fires the boiler accordingly.

You could also put a governor on the T-stat wiring to open the circuit at anything above 75* air temp in the apt.

Barring all of that, how about getting rid of the T-stats and only wiring thermal switches in the apartments, using remote sensors to T-stats installed in the "landlord" area of the building. Plenty of stats on the market that take remote probes, then program the stats to run a 5 or 7 day program.

Well, if they break the thermostats, then they'll have it removed from their security deposit. The problem with just doing a temp probe in the apartment with a 5/7 day program is that it would be illegal for me to EVER set the temp below 68F unless I was to enable them to manually set it back up. If that was the case, I'd just have to set it to 68F and call it good. If the temp gets set below 68F, as long as I give them a method to set it back up to at least 68F then I'm not breaking any laws.