Thermostat Options for Elk (again)

[mstarks01]

OK, so I made the somewhat expensive mistake of buying a thermostat for Elk that isn't going to quite serve my needs. So I have been looking at alternatives. I do like the looks and features of the RC-1000, but it is a bit more than I want to spend. As an alternative, I have been considering the RC-80. It's not nearly as sexy, but I think it will serve my needs at an e-bay cost of around $50.

I have the serial port expander already. Is there anything else I need to make this work with the Elk?

 

[Neurorad]

OK, so I made the somewhat expensive mistake of buying a thermostat for Elk that isn't going to quite serve my needs. So I have been looking at alternatives. I do like the looks and features of the RC-1000, but it is a bit more than I want to spend. As an alternative, I have been considering the RC-80. It's not nearly as sexy, but I think it will serve my needs at an e-bay cost of around $50.

I have the serial port expander already. Is there anything else I need to make this work with the Elk?

Is the RC-1000 lacking in any respect, or is 'your needs' something reasonably priced?

 

[mstarks01]

OK, so I made the somewhat expensive mistake of buying a thermostat for Elk that isn't going to quite serve my needs. So I have been looking at alternatives. I do like the looks and features of the RC-1000, but it is a bit more than I want to spend. As an alternative, I have been considering the RC-80. It's not nearly as sexy, but I think it will serve my needs at an e-bay cost of around $50.

I have the serial port expander already. Is there anything else I need to make this work with the Elk?

Is the RC-1000 lacking in any respect, or is 'your needs' something reasonably priced?

I love the look of the thermostat, but when I'm considering it alongside the RC-80 and there is a $200 difference, I really have to justify the extra expense. In my case, the desire is to be able to write rules in the Elk to automate the heating and cooling (e.g. turn the temp back when armed away). The RC-80 seems like it will do that just as well as the RC-1000, so it boils down to a matter of aesthetics. Honestly, I don't look at my thermostat enough to feel good about spending $200 more. Unless there is something I am missing...

 

[JayH]

OK, so I made the somewhat expensive mistake of buying a thermostat for Elk that isn't going to quite serve my needs. So I have been looking at alternatives. I do like the looks and features of the RC-1000, but it is a bit more than I want to spend. As an alternative, I have been considering the RC-80. It's not nearly as sexy, but I think it will serve my needs at an e-bay cost of around $50.

I have the serial port expander already. Is there anything else I need to make this work with the Elk?

I can't comment on the RC-1000 or RC-80, but I am curious to what your "expensive mistake" was and why it doesn't fit your needs.

Jay

 

[icellama21]

The HAI Omnistat 1 series thermostats interface directly with the elk m1xsp. You are best off reading the manual yourself so you know what you are getting into.

http://www.elkproducts.com/pdf/M1XSP_Light...al_Port_Exp.pdf

You mentioned that the last thermostat didn't meet your needs so be careful that the RC-80 meets your needs, it is one of the lower-capability thermostats out there. Other Elk-compatible options that are the more-capable: HAI omnistats, the RCS zone control boards(can be cheaper if you have a lot of zones since the WDUs are cheap) or aprilaire 8870.

The HAI "Z" thermostats(pretty much any omnistat) are z-wave enabled and is a nice wireless touch. HAI panels support is and I don't know if ELK does.

 

[wuench]

I had a lot of trouble with installing the RC80 and dumped it for the RCS thermostat instead. I think my issues were either wiring or a bad device, but I couldn't get it to communicate with the M1.

With the RC80 you need to use a wiring harness on the thermostat side and a wiring harness on the M1XSP side. So there is room for error there. With the RCS, since it is RS485, you can use the screw down terminals on the M1XSP and it has screw down terminals on the RCS controller side as well. Also, you only need one wire to the display unit, so you can usually utilize your existing wiring. This is my second RCS thermostat, I had an x10 version in my old house.

 

[CDC]

I won't recommend the RCS t-stat. I bought two for a client from tips on this board. I had to wait forever to get them. After installation the HO changed one of the systems to a zoned system. I changed out one of the controllers for a zoned controller and added another stat. Again, I waited a long time to get them. During discussions with RCS I was told their outside temp sensor would be seen on the Elk M1 virtual keypad. So I ordered one. After receiving the wrong OS sensor I installed the correct sensor only to find out that it is not compatible with the Elk. So now I have to get the Elk sensor to accomplish what my customer wanted. I think there is a garage somewhere where this guy makes this stuff when it is ordered, (or when he gets around to it) and they will tell you anything to sell something. I thought I was going to like the RCS T-stat and ordered one early on for myself. At the time, I thought I should try another manuf. and since then I really wish I had. I liked the look of the RCS but I will not use them again. Wow, I have been wanting to vent that for awhile. Unless others strongly recommend the RCS I would stay away from it. Good luck, I'd like to know which one you choose.
CDC

 

[icellama21]

Here is my opinion on the costs and benefits of the options.

1) HAI omnistats. The simple ones are inexpensive and work pretty well, but the build quality can feel a bit cheap. The more advanced ones have lots of additional features that can work with ELK, but are easier to integrate with HAI. No additional hardware needed to connect them, just hook it up to your normal thermostat wiring and run 4 wires(preferably twisted pair like cat5) to an M1XSP. Sometimes requires a little bit of electrical savvy to connect, but the instructions are very clear. Future WiFi option is quite appealing if you don't already have a data wire.

2) RCS. The thermostats connect to a control unit via normal thermostat wiring(4 wire), utilizing your existing thermostat wiring. If you are going to use zoned heating this can be one of the cheapest setups as each thermostat is only a dumb wall display unit, the brains are in the control unit, and this reduces the cost of the thermostats. The control units connect to your HVAC equipment and can be placed near your furnace or zone control panel(presumably where the existing thermostat wires go) You only need 1 data wire from the M1XSP to the location of the zone control units, no need to run data wires to each thermostat. Great retrofit option.

3) Aprilaire 8870. Never heard a complaint about the products, very good reputation. However, additional hardware is needed(protocol adapter and distribution panel) to connect to the M1XSP, raising the cost beyond other options. Thermostats are expensive, but can control almost any furnace(2 stage heating and cooling, heat pump or conventional, lots of control adjustments, etc). Great option if you want reliability and compatibility with almost every furnace, but a tad expensive if you have a simple furnace or only need 1 thermostat. Also does not have an easy way to display outdoor temperature except via the message line.

EDIT: Forgot ELK does not support RCS zone control panel, just the control units. Updated info.

 

[icellama21]

I won't recommend the RCS t-stat. I bought two for a client from tips on this board. I had to wait forever to get them. After installation the HO changed one of the systems to a zoned system. I changed out one of the controllers for a zoned controller and added another stat. Again, I waited a long time to get them. During discussions with RCS I was told their outside temp sensor would be seen on the Elk M1 virtual keypad. So I ordered one. After receiving the wrong OS sensor I installed the correct sensor only to find out that it is not compatible with the Elk. So now I have to get the Elk sensor to accomplish what my customer wanted. I think there is a garage somewhere where this guy makes this stuff when it is ordered, (or when he gets around to it) and they will tell you anything to sell something. I thought I was going to like the RCS T-stat and ordered one early on for myself. At the time, I thought I should try another manuf. and since then I really wish I had. I liked the look of the RCS but I will not use them again. Wow, I have been wanting to vent that for awhile. Unless others strongly recommend the RCS I would stay away from it. Good luck, I'd like to know which one you choose.
CDC

Were you buying directly from the manufacturer? Most distributors have these items in stock and ready to ship today. RCS is an established company with a wide product offering, definitely not a garage. I think you need to find a better distribution channel. May I recommend automated outlet, worthington or setnetpro. Give them a call and I'm sure they will help you out.

Another tip, when buying for a customer, always call around to check stock status. Usually your expertise and hardware mark-ups are a big portion of the bid price so it is better to get everything quickly than to save a few dollars on hardware. Helps customer satisfaction and helps you optimize your time.

 

[mstarks01]

OK, so I made the somewhat expensive mistake of buying a thermostat for Elk that isn't going to quite serve my needs. So I have been looking at alternatives. I do like the looks and features of the RC-1000, but it is a bit more than I want to spend. As an alternative, I have been considering the RC-80. It's not nearly as sexy, but I think it will serve my needs at an e-bay cost of around $50.

I have the serial port expander already. Is there anything else I need to make this work with the Elk?

I can't comment on the RC-1000 or RC-80, but I am curious to what your "expensive mistake" was and why it doesn't fit your needs.

Jay

I bought an RCS TX15-B, which, according to Spanky in another thread, cannot be read from the Elk. I need to be able to read the temperature so I can do things like turn ceiling fans on and off. I'm also worried about spurious X10 signals doing crazy things like setting the heat to 90

 

[mstarks01]

Here is my opinion on the costs and benefits of the options.

1) HAI omnistats. The simple ones are inexpensive and work pretty well, but the build quality can feel a bit cheap. The more advanced ones have lots of additional features that can work with ELK, but are easier to integrate with HAI. No additional hardware needed to connect them, just hook it up to your normal thermostat wiring and run 4 wires(preferably twisted pair like cat5) to an M1XSP. Sometimes requires a little bit of electrical savvy to connect, but the instructions are very clear. Future WiFi option is quite appealing if you don't already have a data wire.

Thanks for this really nice summary. I also have an Elk M1-XEP which is taking up the DB9 serial interface. Do I need to have one M1-XSP per device or can they be chained together somehow? The documentation wasn't too clear on this particular question.

 

[Steve]

Here is my opinion on the costs and benefits of the options.

1) HAI omnistats. The simple ones are inexpensive and work pretty well, but the build quality can feel a bit cheap. The more advanced ones have lots of additional features that can work with ELK, but are easier to integrate with HAI. No additional hardware needed to connect them, just hook it up to your normal thermostat wiring and run 4 wires(preferably twisted pair like cat5) to an M1XSP. Sometimes requires a little bit of electrical savvy to connect, but the instructions are very clear. Future WiFi option is quite appealing if you don't already have a data wire.

Thanks for this really nice summary. I also have an Elk M1-XEP which is taking up the DB9 serial interface. Do I need to have one M1-XSP per device or can they be chained together somehow? The documentation wasn't too clear on this particular question.

It's pretty clear on Pages 8-10 of the XSP manual. You can have up to 4 stats on each XSP. The OmniStat2 is a very nice thermostat.

 

[mstarks01]

It's pretty clear on Pages 8-10 of the XSP manual. You can have up to 4 stats on each XSP. The OmniStat2 is a very nice thermostat.

My question is in regards to a M1-XEP and a thermostat, together. Since I'm already using the DB9 for the M1-XEP, it's not clear to me how I would use both that and a thermostat with the same serial port expander, if at all.

 

[icellama21]

It's pretty clear on Pages 8-10 of the XSP manual. You can have up to 4 stats on each XSP. The OmniStat2 is a very nice thermostat.

My question is in regards to a M1-XEP and a thermostat, together. Since I'm already using the DB9 for the M1-XEP, it's not clear to me how I would use both that and a thermostat with the same serial port expander, if at all.

You can't. You need separate serial ports for the XEP and Thermostats. Don't forget the controller has an onboard serial port. If you have 1 XSP then you have 2 serial ports, etc.

If you are super determined it IS possible to share a serial port but you won't find a commercial device that can do this for less than a new m1xsp, and even then it is hit or miss if it will work with the elk hardware. Other option is to connect your ELK and thermostats to a PC and use PC control software to bridge the components. But the best solution is to buy another M1XSP.

 

[Monk]

It's pretty clear on Pages 8-10 of the XSP manual. You can have up to 4 stats on each XSP. The OmniStat2 is a very nice thermostat.

My question is in regards to a M1-XEP and a thermostat, together. Since I'm already using the DB9 for the M1-XEP, it's not clear to me how I would use both that and a thermostat with the same serial port expander, if at all.

My M1XEP plugs directly in to the ELK - not an expander... (FWIW)