Touchscreen solution options

[AndyBMC]

Hi, guys, this is a great forum, I am glad I found it... My area of interest is Digital Home as such, but I am coming more from the Home Theater/HTPC side and am trying to bring me up to speed on the Home Automation front - this forum seems to be a great knowledgebase...

BACKGROUND
While architecting my Home Theater setup around HTPC/Media Player/Media Server based on Windows MCE software I am coming to a configuration when I would have
- a central Media Server in the wiring closet running 24/7 and
- have a Media Player or Media Extender (Linksys) connect to the TV accessing content on Media Server
- Home Office PC for internet movie/music downloads, home video/photos uploading from the camera and storing on the Media Server working as a Network Storage.
I described a bit more about this setup in my blog under: http://www.buildmediacenter.com/html/dh02.html

OPTIONS
Part of what I am struggling is to understand what options do I have to introduce a Touchscreen control for this setup:
A. I was initially thinking about hard mounted on the wall touchscreen, connected via VGA and USB (for touchsensor) to the Media Server in the wiring closet.
B. I also read in this forum about options to extend the distance from this touchscreen to the Media center through the KLM extender, still as a hard mounted option.
C. Than I read that a TablePC for $200 is another solution and supposedly most universal.
D. Touchscreen control from Philips or similar.

QUESTIONS
1. Is my understanding correct or there are other options?

2. I understand how A and B options can work - I originally thought to use MCE software and use the touchscreen for music selection. I also learned that I can use a stand alone or MCE integrated software like MusicLobby to control the music playback from the touchscreen (I don't think turning on TV to select music with a remote makes sense... ).
2.a I am struggling to see how options C and D work and what BENEFITS will they give me...
2.b Basically what kind of product could I use for Touchscreen in C and D
2.c What software would I use on the TabletPC and on the server and rough cost of that software...
2.d I am a bit concerned on the fact, that I would need to buy a home automation package for option C and D and will not be as flexible as with MCE and it's hundreds of free plugins, etc... So I am interested to know if people are happyly using option C (TabletPC) or D (Touchscreen remote control)...

Thanks,

Andy

 

[DavidL]

1. Is my understanding correct or there are other options?

Also include the UTMA variety which is a windows over TCPIP technology. One Cat5 wire between the PC's Network connection and the screen hundreds of feet away. Also need 18/2 wire to the screen for 12 volt power from a wallwart. This is the best choice I have seen. Cinemar will shortly be selling this technology.

2. I understand how A and B options can work - I originally thought to use MCE software and use the touchscreen for music selection. I also learned that I can use a stand alone or MCE integrated software like MusicLobby to control the music playback from the touchscreen (I don't think turning on TV to select music with a remote makes sense... ).

Of course, i would recommend MusicLobby 3. Best choice for a touchscreen.

2.a I am struggling to see how options C and D work and what BENEFITS will they give me...

Option C gives you flexibility to move around and take it into rooms that there is no in wall or tabletop touchscreen. Look at the brand new Samsung UMPC Q1 unit that Cinemar sells now.

Option D is limited in what you can do. If you are into Home automation and sophisticated theater control, the Phillips won't cut it.

2.b Basically what kind of product could I use for Touchscreen in C and D

MainLobby.

2.c What software would I use on the TabletPC and on the server and rough cost of that software...

MainLobby - $179 for MainLobby 3 client (on the TabletPC / UMPC) and MLServer 3 (on central PC) Plus $59 for MusicLobby, Plus $40 for J River Media Center 11.1
This total solution will be available turn key this weekend from Cinemar, including hardware that is preloaded with software if you don't want to "mess" with it getting going. Of course you can Mess with it all you want once you have it.


2.d I am a bit concerned on the fact, that I would need to buy a home automation package for option C and D and will not be as flexible as with MCE and it's hundreds of free plugins, etc... So I am interested to know if people are happyly using option C (TabletPC) or D (Touchscreen remote control)...

MainLobby is MUCH more flexible than MCE. Many more plugins. No comparision here.

Here are some pics: http://www.cinemaronlineforums.com/forum/v...t=6515&start=15

You can also add VGA or VGA connected via Cat5 baluns, or UTMA or PanelPC touchscreens to the above MainLobby setup no problem.

 

[IVB]

The question should be how stable is it, how networkable is it, and how easy is it to customize to your needs.

I use a Fujitsu 3400 (option C) with CQC (www.charmedquark.com) to control my home theater & home automation system. In the latest version, there's 95 plugins, the one coming up in 4-ish weeks will cross the 100 mark, and most importantly, each one of them is stable and can be administrated across the network.

I don't like using touchscreen-only monitors (ie not a tablet) as they're
1) expensive as heck to put at a distance from your PC, as you need to buy KVM extenders. I have all my PCs in a central closet, as the wife mandates no or close to no unneeded physical equipment in any room if I want to keep this hobby.
2) Only 1 per PC, unless you get a VGA splitter in which case you have concurrency issues as the same screen is on every monitor.

You could get those really nice Touchtronix ones, but I can't currently afford that.

Here's my personal pictures thread. It's a publicly available skin if anyone else wants it.

 

[Digger]

I just got a Fujitsu 3500 yesterday (wanted a little more RAM and harddrive space) and hope to follow IVB's lead. The Tablet seemed the most reasonable and flexible solution to me. I will make it wireless and eventually use it for Security and HomeAutomation. If it works out well I will get a few more.

My big thing is how to stream CCTV to it. I want to mount camera's outside the house to keep an eye on the kids and the front door and view it from the tablets. I cant afford IP Camera's (by the time I can I wont need to watch the kids)

 

[IVB]

I just got a Fujitsu 3500 yesterday (wanted a little more RAM and harddrive space) and hope to follow IVB's lead. The Tablet seemed the most reasonable and flexible solution to me. I will make it wireless and eventually use it for Security and HomeAutomation. If it works out well I will get a few more.

My big thing is how to stream CCTV to it. I want to mount camera's outside the house to keep an eye on the kids and the front door and view it from the tablets. I cant afford IP Camera's (by the time I can I wont need to watch the kids)

FYI - I'm doing that now on my 3400 using the Web Browser capabilities of the Diginet software and kodicomm card that i'm using. The 3400 is only hitting 3 frames/second, as compared to 5 frames/second on my 1.3GHz P4 laptop. I've got a thread around here somewhere about that.

I'm sure I could optimize to render the 15-30fps that folks claim a kodicomm could do, but for front-door usage it's "good enough" until I can get my other HA stuff up&running (ie elk)

 

[Digger]

I need to look into that for CCTV. I have a few things going on right now (new job, vacation in a few weeks etc etc) so it may progress slowly and funds are limited at the moment.

I know a bit about the ELK (not anywhere as much as SPANKY). I will help you if I can.

 

[AndyBMC]

Let me summarize again the options based on the replies. I am still new to the terminology, so please correct me if I am wrong... Basically, I see two main directions to go - with a mobile touchscreen or a hard mounted one; each has some sub-options... A learning remote is another alternative...

1. HARD-MOUNTED TOUCHSCREEN
1.1 VGA cable connected monitor and USB connected touchpad
1.2 Same as 1.1 extended with a KVM for VGA, USB or PS/2 (KVM-over-CAT5)
1.3 Same as 1.1 extended with UTMA windows over TCPIP technology. One Cat5 wire between the PC's Network connection and the screen. Also need 18/2 wire to the screen for 12 volt power from a wallwart.
1.4 PanelPC connected as TabletPC over Cat5 or Wi-Fi

2. MOBILE TOUCHSCREEN
2.2 TabletPC with Windows Mobile, with PCMCIA Wi-Fi card
2.3 UMPC (Ultra Mobile PC), with Windows Mobile and inbuilt WiFi
2.4 PDA or PocketPC (like HP iPAQ) with Windows Mobile and inbuilt WiFi (wireless LAN 802.11b)

3. REMOTE
3.1 Learning Remote with touchscreen and RF or IR communication to an RF/IR receiver
3.2 Learning Remote without a touchscreen (just programmable buttons)
3.3 Standard Remote for multiple devices

QUESTIONS

I guess, since I am moving into Home Automation from Home Theater domain and currently don't use much of home security or lights control or other... I am trying to figure out different configurations depending on my needs...

A. For Video, DVD, Pictures (and it was mentioned by someone in this forum) one doesn't need a mobile touchscreen - a simple learning remote will do... May be it is just also a simpler setup with a learning IR remote, which can turn on the cable box, amplifier, flat screen TV and the media center PC depending on programmed activity... In home automation I would probably need to run RS-232 cables to cable box, amplifier, etc to control them over a touchscreen remote with MainLobby...? Unless there is some other software to do IR transmission to cable box, amplifier, etc...?

B. For Audio it is awkward to turn on the TV to select music (as in MCE)... a touchscreen may provide a better interface for that. If you have multiple audio zones, you would need a mobile touchscreen. Yet, if you have only one audio zone a hard mounted one is an option as well...?

C. For Home Automation it for sure makes sense to have a mobile or several parallel hard mounted touchscreens...?

D It seems that the hard mounted touchscreens are more expensive than a tablet PC? On eBay Fujitsu 3400 goes for 150$, I didn't see any touchscreens under 150$... Am I not searching correctly?

E. I got some advice on using PDAs like iPAQ for a mobile touchscreen option... They are kind of more handy... Does MainLobby work on iPAQ as well? Niveus supposedly has remote control software for iPAQ http://www.niveusmedia.com to connect to MCE... Any pros/cons of PocketPCs from experience?

Thanks in advance!

Andy

 

[DavidL]

A. For Video, DVD, Pictures (and it was mentioned by someone in this forum) one doesn't need a mobile touchscreen - a simple learning remote will do... May be it is just also a simpler setup with a learning IR remote, which can turn on the cable box, amplifier, flat screen TV and the media center PC depending on programmed activity... In home automation I would probably need to run RS-232 cables to cable box, amplifier, etc to control them over a touchscreen remote with MainLobby...? Unless there is some other software to do IR transmission to cable box, amplifier, etc...?


MainLobby also supports IR as well. RS232 is always better due to 2 way interaction with the device, but for channel surfing or volume up / down, nothing better than a TV IR remote control for ease. UB_UIRT and Global Cache are the hardware devices of choice to implement IR with MainLobby.


B. For Audio it is awkward to turn on the TV to select music (as in MCE)... a touchscreen may provide a better interface for that. If you have multiple audio zones, you would need a mobile touchscreen. Yet, if you have only one audio zone a hard mounted one is an option as well...?

Or you can have multiple in wall touchscreens, or a pocketpc, or a desktop PC, or a pocketpc phone, etc, all working at once in a single home together wherever they are.


C. For Home Automation it for sure makes sense to have a mobile or several parallel hard mounted touchscreens...?

Both make sense, depends on the house and your needs. Cinemar is building a software load and will be selling the Samsung Q1 UMPC this week that is a great wireless handheld touchscreen at a reasonable cost.


D It seems that the hard mounted touchscreens are more expensive than a tablet PC? On eBay Fujitsu 3400 goes for 150$, I didn't see any touchscreens under 150$... Am I not searching correctly?

You will not find a touchscreen for that price except lucky on the ebay market. More like $500 for a base touchscreen and $1100 for a Q1 with no software.


E. I got some advice on using PDAs like iPAQ for a mobile touchscreen option... They are kind of more handy... Does MainLobby work on iPAQ as well? Niveus supposedly has remote control software for iPAQ http://www.niveusmedia.com to connect to MCE... Any pros/cons of PocketPCs from experience?

Yes, PocketPCs are supported by MainLobby suite. Today, not the totally configurable MainLobby client, but specific products like DVDLobby / XMLobby / MusicLobby / Russound Cav6 applications that talk to the MLServer back end like all the rest of touchscreens / desktops do that are running the MainLobby Client app.

 

[mdesmarais]

Do the Fujitsu 3400/3500 require the stylus or can they be used with just a finger?

Thanks

Markd

 

[IVB]

You can use your fingernail, but responsiveness is definitely not as nice as the more expensive options.

I wallmounted mine in a removable fashion as shown here, and my wife decided to put a ballpoint pen with the pen part removed on top of it. This allowed me to create small buttons and save real estate.

If you think that's too hokey, then you can just design larger buttons.

 

[DavidL]

Markd,
Fujitsu offered that tablet in both Active and Passive (finger touch) versions. a "P" in the model number meant passive.
most are passive that you will find.

 

[mdesmarais]

Thanks guys.

I want more of a big button look anyways. ;-)

 

[ion-man]

I am very new to this forum and learning quite a bit as I go along. I too am interested in the Fujitsu 3400 for use around the house with my Slingbox. I was wondering if there is anyway I can use this to control a Sony DVP 995V 400 dvd megachanger> I know the 777ES line has RS-232 port for connectivity but is there anything I can do to make the 995V controllable via this, or do I have to get the 777ES instead?

 

[Rupp]

I am very new to this forum and learning quite a bit as I go along. I too am interested in the Fujitsu 3400 for use around the house with my Slingbox. I was wondering if there is anyway I can use this to control a Sony DVP 995V 400 dvd megachanger> I know the 777ES line has RS-232 port for connectivity but is there anything I can do to make the 995V controllable via this, or do I have to get the 777ES instead?

If there are no external "connectors" like the RS232 port then IR is the only other way. I use the Ocelot / HomeSeer combination to control all of my audio/video devices as well as mini blinds in my home.

 

[Dean Roddey]

The 995 does not have serial control. It can be serially controlled, and CQC can easily do that. But it's not going to be as nice as serial control, where you can get feedback on current slot and power state and so forth.