UL-listing for Central Monitoring Stations

[IVB]

Anyone know what exactly UL-listed means for Central Monitoring Stations? I.E., NextAlarm has UL-listed centers, but what does UL look for/do to provide that? My neighbors are getting service, and a non-listed person is telling them it's just a marketing fluff tag. I can't counter as I dunno the details.

 

[Digger]

Anyone know what exactly UL-listed means for Central Monitoring Stations? I.E., NextAlarm has UL-listed centers, but what does UL look for/do to provide that? My neighbors are getting service, and a non-listed person is telling them it's just a marketing fluff tag. I can't counter as I dunno the details.

UL has standards written for minimum requirements for the Central Station equipment and Standard Operating Procedures. I worked on the hardware end of the alarm industry at UL for about 12 years and the Central Station certification is handled by a different group. I can tell you that while it is not an easy process (or cheap) to get the UL Certification for Central Station operation that there really is no reason why they should not. Many insurance companies want the assurance that the central station will have the proper equipment (and staffing) for the number of accounts, the proper equipment (and training) for an emergency (long term power outage, phone and/or internet loss etc), and that they are audited by a third party (such as UL) for compliance.

Have your neighbors ask their home owners insurance company if they will get a discount if they use a non UL Certified Central Station. In my case the discount from my insurance company exceeds what I pay Next Alarm and I find their service to be fine (as it should be).

 

[IVB]

Do you know if it's possible to get a hold of those minimum requirements?

 

[Digger]

Do you know if it's possible to get a hold of those minimum requirements?

The standards are copyrighted so I cant download them and send them to you. As a UL Customer I have free access to them all for my use only.

You can look at UL's website starting here:

UL Central Station Information

Not sure how much they will dilvulge that way as I dont have time right now to read through all of the links from that page.

 

[CollinR]

If you don't have UL you can basically run a central station from your home with a residential telephone line. You basically have no clue what is any equipment they have. Being UL listed is IMO a basic requirement and although not easy to get the stuff they require is all logical stuff. Security of the facility and it's communications and the operating procedures of the employees.

 

[IVB]

Thanks for the link, i'll check it out.

CollinR - that's the exact scenario I gave, but that's a weak argument against someone who says "blah, if we were doing that no one would buy from us. That UL listing thing is just a marketing scheme - heck they're just a private company. Trust me we've got a secure facility/blah blah blah".

 

[CollinR]

You can't fix stupidity.

Tell this guy I'll be his bank, I don't have FDIC or NCUA but heck it's just marketing fluff right!

 

[IVB]

well, that's not a very compelling argument, those are government certifications with published standards. (i.e., FDIC gets you $100K of insurance on cash equivalent accounts). it's the equivalent of the sleazy used car salesman saying "I feel like we're close. I like you. Trust me, i'm going to give you a great deal."

Just like we know FDIC = $100K of insurance on cash accounts, I want to know what UL listing gets me.

 

[sic0048]

I think checking with his insurance company is a great start. Odds are they will not give him a discount for a monitored service if it is not UL. It's obviously not marketing fluff to most insurance companies. Ask him who he trusts more, his insurance company or the alarm company that is trying to sell him an inferior product.

 

[IVB]

I'll certainly advise him to ask his insurance company, but in the end this has less to do with "trust" and more to do with "what am I actually buying". Being UL-listed certainly should have 5-10 bullets about what it means. As always, Caveat Emptor, so I commend him for doing due diligence to truly understand what he's being asked to spend money on.

It's kinda like the discussion about why CQC is better than HomeSeer; Dean/etc better have 5-10 bullets ready to go about that, "see how many folks are doing full HA with it, Trust them, it must rock" doesn't justify it for most folks.

 

[gatchel]

Aren't UL central stations mainly used for Govt. and high end installations? I know the monitoring is much, much more expensive. Maybe I'm thinking of a different level of UL listed monitoring. I'll have to get clarification on this one.

 

[IVB]

NextAlarm says their centers are UL-listed...

 

[CollinR]

Aren't UL central stations mainly used for Govt. and high end installations? I know the monitoring is much, much more expensive. Maybe I'm thinking of a different level of UL listed monitoring. I'll have to get clarification on this one.

No, like I said this is rather basic stuff. Keeps people from having 2000 accounts and a single incoming phone line, recievers using extension cords for power (must be hardwired in) and crap like that. I don't do monitoring so I know little of it but I know I wouldn't sell montioring that wasn't UL, really you have to kinda look to find someone in the business that is not UL listed.

In all reality this guy's station probably is UL listed but since he is a subcontractor basically for sales he just doesn't know it. Quite often you are dealing with 2 companies, the sales, design and installation company and behind them a larger monitoring company. This is due to the capital costs of starting a monitoring station. There are UL listed statations out there that will provide these dealers with an 800# with tech support and the whole monitoring shebang for a couple few bucks a month. The dealer then sells the end user a contract and earns a profit either from the the central station (ADT, Brinks, Gaurdian, Central Security Group) or by the difference between their wholesale montioring costs and the amount charged to the customer. This senario is far more common then the central station actually being located at the dealers headquarters, however bigger dealers can and do have them.

 

[Digger]

[
No, like I said this is rather basic stuff. Keeps people from having 2000 accounts and a single incoming phone line, recievers using extension cords for power (must be hardwired in) and crap like that. I don't do monitoring so I know little of it but I know I wouldn't sell montioring that wasn't UL, really you have to kinda look to find someone in the business that is not UL listed.

I used to know the loading requirements but it has been years since I needed them.

It is not a requirement for central station receivers to be hardwired to the branch circuit. I have Listed a few when I worked at UL and as a mfg.

You can look at the Ademco 685 and 7810IR and the Napco Netlink Receiver amongst others.

 

[Lagerhead]

This link is a bit more informative as it is mostly in non-technical terms...
http://www.ul.com/alarmsystems/

Though I understand the desire to have the particulars pertaining to UL listing, to me it's a rather simple matter. Either you conform to an objective, outside, respected standard (UL listing), or you don't. Knowing that UL is a respected testing organization, and that they know a hell of a lot more than I do about what matters for competent monitoring, is something that I can accept or reject without knowing the details.

But this much is obvious -- criticizing the standard as "marketing fluff" is a smokescreen meant to obscure the fact that they don't meet it.