UPB and fluorescent lights

gf5300

Active Member
The signal and noise levels in my house are excellent (even with CFL's turned on) as long as the laundry room, master closet and the garage lights are turned off. These rooms have the tube type fluorescent light fixtures. The noise becomes severe when these lights are turned on.
The question is, is there anything I can do before having to replace this light fixtures? This would not be out of the question but it is obviously be something I would prefer to avoid.
Are there any adaptors out there that would allow to put in the old fashion type lights?
Would LED tubes help with the noise? Would the ballast have to be replaced?
Any help would be very appreciated.
Thanks.
 
If you haven't already tried, I would install a phase coupler or a split phase repeater. This solves a lot of these types of problems and can be found here.
 
Hmmm, I was thinking more in terms of a filter or the in-line choke. I don't see how a coupler would help if these fixtures are spewing noise. My experience has been the CFLs have been more noise prone than the tubes, but I guess it all depends on the ballast. In this situation I guess it depends on the 'quality' of the fixture. If it's just a plain inexpensive fixture I would just replace it, if it is one of the fancier kinds, it would be less expensive to try a choke or filter.
 
Didn't you mean filters? There are three of them on the page you referenced?

Steve, we must have been reading each others minds.
 
Hmmm, I was thinking more in terms of a filter or the in-line choke. I don't see how a coupler would help if these fixtures are spewing noise. My experience has been the CFLs have been more noise prone than the tubes, but I guess it all depends on the ballast. In this situation I guess it depends on the 'quality' of the fixture. If it's just a plain inexpensive fixture I would just replace it, if it is one of the fancier kinds, it would be less expensive to try a choke or filter.


Wouldn't a coupler help by having a stronger signal on the opposite phase? Of course a filter would help as well but I am thinking more along the lines of improving the entire system reliability first and then drill down from there if there are still issues. PCS does recommend a coupler in every installation don't they? Yes they are selling things but in my experience, a phase coupler has solved most issues.

Didn't you mean filters? There are three of them on the page you referenced?

Steve, we must have been reading each others minds.

The first two items on that page are what I was talking about. The other items you and Steve mentioned would certainly help as well. I guess I think macro first and micro second if needed. Why buy 4 or 5 filters if a stronger overall system will solve the problem? I'm just approaching the problem differently I guess and now the OP has some great options to solve the issues.
 
You could either try to filter the noise using a X-10 harwire device, or a UPB filter like the 15A PCS plug in filter with an extention cord that is cut to become hardwired. I would most likely just replace the ballasts of the offending units, I would do this after I tried to phase the noise to the opposite phase from UPB if you aren't using alot of units.

I have heard that the split phase device can attenuate noise though I would avoid the couplers, they could make things worse all around the home.
 
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I have heard that the split phase device can attenuate noise though I would avoid the couplers, they could make things worse all around the home.

You may be right about the active couplers, I have only used the passive coupler.
 
I am in a similar situation. I have a coupler that I am going to give a try. The problem is, one of the offending devices is portable and I am not sure of the logistice of using a plug in filter on it. It happens to be my sons ventilator, and seems to mainly affect the status messages from devices, affecting different devices depending upon where he is at. I noticed this the other day while I was watching him and playing with writting a UPB driver for an automation application. Was not getting responses from a set of devices. He crawled into the kitchen, so I moved the plug over there, and another set of devices stopped acknowledging while the initial set became happy.
 
D14:

If your UPB devices are Gen1, then adding a phase coupler might make the situation worse by coupling noise from the noisy phase to the quiet phase. If your network works fine with the lights off, then you probably have adequate signal levels anyway. More than likely, the tube type fluorescents have electronic ballasts. Some electronic ballasts generate noise in the UPB band, creating interference.

Look at the specs on the fixture - how much current do they need? PCS makes a small 1A choke that wires in series with the power of the fixture, and will dramatically reduce the noise / interference. They also have higher current devices, but they will be more difficult to install.

We have seen problems with electronic ballasts, but this is unusual. Normally, the problems have been with low voltage lighting, not line voltage fluorescents.

Tom - for your situation, for the portable offending device, let me suggest trying one of the inexpensive X10 5A plug in filters. We have had some good success using these for situations like this.
 
D14:

If your UPB devices are Gen1, then adding a phase coupler might make the situation worse by coupling noise from the noisy phase to the quiet phase. If your network works fine with the lights off, then you probably have adequate signal levels anyway. More than likely, the tube type fluorescents have electronic ballasts. Some electronic ballasts generate noise in the UPB band, creating interference.

Look at the specs on the fixture - how much current do they need? PCS makes a small 1A choke that wires in series with the power of the fixture, and will dramatically reduce the noise / interference. They also have higher current devices, but they will be more difficult to install.

We have seen problems with electronic ballasts, but this is unusual. Normally, the problems have been with low voltage lighting, not line voltage fluorescents.

Tom - for your situation, for the portable offending device, let me suggest trying one of the inexpensive X10 5A plug in filters. We have had some good success using these for situations like this.

Thanks for the reponses.
The irony of the situation is that I have a lot of low voltage and CFL's and they do not put out any noise. Upstart shows zero or little noise when these fixtures are on.
Can the ballast be replaced? I have heard that magnetic ballast could also solve the noise problem but I would like to verify this with somebody knowledgeable.
By the way, with I have a mix of gen II and gen I lights.
 
I'm sure you could replace the ballast, but you wonder if it's worth it. You could probably buy a whole new fixture down at Home Depot for the price of putting in a new ballast. Using a magnetic ballast should eliminate the noise. Again, depending upon how much current you need, the small inline filters will probably resolve the problem with possibly less work than replacing the ballast.
 
***Update***
Well, I installed in-line choke filters (by PCS) in all of the offending switches and just like magic, all the noise is gone!
Best 20 bucks (per switch) I have ever spent.
Thank you all for all the help.
 
I am in a similar situation. I have a coupler that I am going to give a try. The problem is, one of the offending devices is portable and I am not sure of the logistice of using a plug in filter on it. It happens to be my sons ventilator, and seems to mainly affect the status messages from devices, affecting different devices depending upon where he is at. I noticed this the other day while I was watching him and playing with writting a UPB driver for an automation application. Was not getting responses from a set of devices. He crawled into the kitchen, so I moved the plug over there, and another set of devices stopped acknowledging while the initial set became happy.

How much current does the ventilator require and how heavy can the filtering device be?
 
Simply Automated has plug-in and wire-in 10A filters. The wire in can be connected in parallel for higher current applications, such as pool pumps.
 
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