UPB Challenge

[tmbrown97]

OK - I'm on a roll getting my house switched over to UPB; it's like an addiction now.

Here's the challenge that I was hoping to accomplish before I had any real-world experience with upstart, and I wanna know if anyone has any creative ideas to accomplish this or insight into upstart that I haven't figured out yet:

I have two hallways that intersect each other like a T. The long side is link 8, the short side is link 9. I use all CFL's, so there's no dimming - just on/off; therefor double tap and hold/release don't do the usual functions.

So - I was originally hoping I could have the single taps work just like always - turn the light on/off (snap since I can't dim). What I was really hoping I could do is use the double-tap to control the lights in the OTHER hallway. In other words, device 8 - single tap turns device 8 on/off. Double-tap turns device 9 on/off.

Anyone got any ideas?

Edit: I know I could change the faceplate to a double rocker... I'd rather not - I prefer the stock look with the stealth function.

 

[mustangcoupe]

try a 2 custom link types under tx components, one for link 9 one for link 8 ect... activate/deactivate under the actions

then only have them respond to their custom link number

 

[hucker]

It can't be done they way you want. UPB can't do different links for single/double tap. I really want that capability for similar reasons, how about all of the switches in a room working 'normally' but double tap turns all the lights in a room off/on.

There are a bunch of little things like this that are frustrating about UPB since this capability seems trivial to implement.

 

[fcwilt]

That's why they make devices with multiple buttons and controller-only devices with multiple, illuminated buttons. Yes I understand that you don't like them but "hidden" functions are not very user friendly. Two buttons gives a hint that there is more then one light being controlled. To each his own I suppose but why fight the system?

 

[zpollock]

Todd,

There is a hack work around that I've used to accomplish similar functionality, but it will require that you have an automation controller in the system.

As Hucker mentioned, you can't specify different links for single versus double taps. I've been requesting that the PCS engineers add such a feature to the UPB spec for years, but to no avail. The work around is to use a "virtual" double tap. This works better on the newer hardware that allows the maximum time threshold to be adjusted. Turn that setting all the way down to the minimum, which as I recall is around 350 ms. When you want to control the other bank, your "double tap" needs to be a little slower than the internal double tap threshold. So you do a press, pause, press. In this case, the switch is really just sending two back to back link commands.

The hack is where the controller comes in. I've used an Omni in my case, and the logic is that when a link is initiated, a corresponding flag is turned on for a brief period (typically two or three seconds). There is an event that states If Link 8 is Received, And the Link 8 Flag is On, then Activate Link 9. The behavior is that the first time you press the paddle it will activate the local link, but if you press it again within the two second or so window before the flag timer expires, then the second link will be activated. You can use the same logic for off.

This isn't a perfect solution and it has some limitations (such as not being able to turn on the remote loads [link 9] without activating the local loads first [link 8]), but it will work. The way that I frequently use it is to create a switch near the exit of an area that is an area off command. For example, in my bedroom master suite, the single paddle near the door just turns on the single bedroom ceiling light, but the virtual double tap off turns off all lights in the bedroom, bathroom, and sitting room of the master suite. Coupled with my other hardware and software based systems, that same double press can also shut off TV monitors, audio, and any other automated systems that I want to shut down as I depart that area.

Hope that helps.

Zac

 

[tmbrown97]

Thx for the replies guys. That's too bad that it's not easier - I was looking forward to that feature. I'll have to play with some of the suggestions to see what I can rig up.

Mr. Wilcox - I have to respectfully disagree about "hidden" functions not being user friendly. As the homeowners, it's perfectly reasonable for my wife and I to know about hidden features; but for the guests in my house, a single switch at the end of a hallway is pretty self explanatory; A controller or setup with multiple rockers would be *less* user friendly to guests. It's all about keeping things familiar.

 

[tenholde]

I use HomeSeer as an automation controller and I accomplish what you want by triggering an event to run when it sees the double-tap that performs my secondary function for the switch. In my case, switches by both the front and side doors can be double-tapped to turn the house status to 'not occoupied'

tenholde

 

[zpollock]

Tenholde - The issue is that the UPB switch can still only transmit a single link. Todd is trying to get two different link activations out of a single switch, which requires some trickery with the controller. There's no native method of getting two different links out of the switch itself, regardless of what combinations of key presses trigger it.

Most of the older UPB switches would allow you to control the local load without using a link, so it could be configured for a single press to operate the load without transmitting anything, and a double press could then send a link. The newer equipment (at least all that I've played with in the last year or two) have separated the transmit and receive functions of the local load, so that local load is always using a link.

 

[Steve]

With HAI and PCS you can sort of do what you want. You can setup the single tap to control local load and setup a double tap to transmit the link, but it also seems to control the load. So You could make it where the double tap would control BOTH hallways simultaneously. But that's only on HAI and PCS switches anyway.

 

[comet48]

With HAI and PCS you can sort of do what you want. You can setup the single tap to control local load and setup a double tap to transmit the link, but it also seems to control the load. So You could make it where the double tap would control BOTH hallways simultaneously. But that's only on HAI and PCS switches anyway.

I had CFL's, no dimming, and MTBF was around 90 days!!!

 

[tmbrown97]

With HAI and PCS you can sort of do what you want. You can setup the single tap to control local load and setup a double tap to transmit the link, but it also seems to control the load. So You could make it where the double tap would control BOTH hallways simultaneously. But that's only on HAI and PCS switches anyway.

That actually wouldn't be the end of the world... usually I'm wanting to turn off both hallways anyway. But, I went with SAI and I was having a hell of a time getting it to control the local load without transmitting something. That was the first thing I attempted.

 

[kurtmccaslin]

With HAI and PCS you can sort of do what you want. You can setup the single tap to control local load and setup a double tap to transmit the link, but it also seems to control the load. So You could make it where the double tap would control BOTH hallways simultaneously. But that's only on HAI and PCS switches anyway.

That actually wouldn't be the end of the world... usually I'm wanting to turn off both hallways anyway. But, I went with SAI and I was having a hell of a time getting it to control the local load without transmitting something. That was the first thing I attempted.

Todd, I had exactly the same problem and found that the SA 11-40 (sometimes known as US 1-40) does what you want. It has the ability to control the load with a single tap and transmit a link with a double tap. (or control the link with a single tap and a load with a double tap)

 

[drozwood90]

I use HomeSeer as an automation controller and I accomplish what you want by triggering an event to run when it sees the double-tap that performs my secondary function for the switch. In my case, switches by both the front and side doors can be double-tapped to turn the house status to 'not occoupied'

tenholde

Ten,

If your event watching for the link status to go "SNAP" (instead of Activate)?

As in Device Value Change?

--Dan

 

[tenholde]

I use HomeSeer as an automation controller and I accomplish what you want by triggering an event to run when it sees the double-tap that performs my secondary function for the switch. In my case, switches by both the front and side doors can be double-tapped to turn the house status to 'not occoupied'

tenholde

Ten,

If your event watching for the link status to go "SNAP" (instead of Activate)?

As in Device Value Change?

--Dan

My Event is triggered on when the link device has a Value Change to Fade Off

In Upstart, I define the transmit link for Double-Tap to be a Fade Off instead of Deactivate

This is on the OFF button for a 6-button controller. So, when I tap once, it is defined to turn the light off (deactivate). When I double-tap, it fades to OFF, but homeseer also detects the Fade Off value change, and I run a script to set my house to the unoccupied mode.

I know this is not 100% what the original poster was looking for because the double-tap also turns the light off (fades), but it works for me.

tenholde