UPB Manufacturer Recommendations

[briankelly63]

For those members that have worked with UPB for sometime.... I'd like to know if there is a particular UPB manufacturer, that over time and through your experiance, that you would recommend. Factors in order of importance to me would be build quality (switch-dimmers), electrical reliability, failure rate, warranty and support...

I'd like to switch from Smarthome switchlinc PLC devices to UPB but want to avoid all the issues that arose with these poor build quality units etc etc...

Thanks

Brian

P.S. for whichever company you recommend where would you recommend they be purchased from....?

 

[ano]

For those members that have worked with UPB for sometime.... I'd like to know if there is a particular UPB manufacturer, that over time and through your experiance, that you would recommend. Factors in order of importance to me would be build quality (switch-dimmers), electrical reliability, failure rate, warranty and support...

I'd like to switch from Smarthome switchlinc PLC devices to UPB but want to avoid all the issues that arose with these poor build quality units etc etc...

Thanks

Brian

I like the Simply Automated ones. Have about 50 with only one defective from the box. Their replaceable paddles and faces are very flexible. Only had a few HAI switches, but they didn't have a good feel to me. Their early relay switches also had problems which they have since fixed, but they left the early adapters high-and-dry. I won't buy HAI switches again.

 

[mustangcoupe]

For those members that have worked with UPB for sometime.... I'd like to know if there is a particular UPB manufacturer, that over time and through your experiance, that you would recommend. Factors in order of importance to me would be build quality (switch-dimmers), electrical reliability, failure rate, warranty and support...

I'd like to switch from Smarthome switchlinc PLC devices to UPB but want to avoid all the issues that arose with these poor build quality units etc etc...

Thanks

Brian

I like the Simply Automated ones. Have about 50 with only one defective from the box. Their replaceable paddles and faces are very flexible. Only had a few HAI switches, but they didn't have a good feel to me. Their early relay switches also had problems which they have since fixed, but they left the early adapters high-and-dry. I won't buy HAI switches again.

I agree even though I have limited switches (8) I have 7 SAI and 1 HAI I prefer the SAI to the HAI for feel. not sure about the others.

 

[Steve]

PCS probably has the best warranty and perhaps best quality. SAI has the flexibility of the faceplates. SAI is going to be less expensive than PCS. I would probably try them both and see which you like better. I don't think you could go wrong with either. But I do like the HAI multibuttons the best.

 

[CalypsoCowboy]

I've only had one of the PCS and one of the HAI, my wife and I preferred the HAI switches, yah they were a bit mushy but the click of the PCS switches just wasn't our thing.

 

[robolo]

I have quite a few SAI, PCS, and even Web Mountain (SAI in disguise). I think there is hardly any difference with reliablilty between any of the manufacturers. It really comes down to the slight difference in "feel" of the paddles, availability of high wattage models (SAI only goes to 900W while PCS has a 2400W switch), the preference you might have for the look of the multibutton controllers between manufacturers, and finally cost.

There is no problem mixing them in different places in a house. You might buy one of each and see if you think there is any one you especially like more than the others. If not go with the cheapest. Best place to buy any of them is www.automatedoutlet.com. Excellent customer service and has legions of loyal fans on this board.

Web Mountain sells its products through www.digitalavnew.com

robolo

 

[nightwalker]

I have a mixture of UPB brands here. Most are HAI and I've not had a failure yet. I will admit that I like their later models better, they just feel better to the touch. I wouldn't be worried about any of the brands, I have at least one of all of them with no troubles. The only place I have a definite preference is in Keypads, I'm very fond of the HAI keypads.

 

[bmil]

Although all 3 brands are compatible, the SA switches are still Gen 1 and have the Blue/Green LED. The PCS/HAI switches are Gen 2 and have the Blue/Red LED's. (Although WebMountain sells Gen 2 versions of the SA dimmer I think it still has the old Blue/Green LED's).

I have some of all 3 and am still trying to decide which we like best, but the WAF dictates that SA switches can't be in viewing range of the PCS/HAI switches due to the conflicting LED colors (sheesh!!!)...

 

[mustangcoupe]

Although all 3 brands are compatible, the SA switches are still Gen 1 and have the Blue/Green LED. The PCS/HAI switches are Gen 2 and have the Blue/Red LED's. (Although WebMountain sells Gen 2 versions of the SA dimmer I think it still has the old Blue/Green LED's).

I have some of all 3 and am still trying to decide which we like best, but the WAF dictates that SA switches can't be in viewing range of the PCS/HAI switches due to the conflicting LED colors (sheesh!!!)...

I thought that the SA switches were now Gen2, I have control of the local delay (?) time in upstart on some and on older units I do not have this option. And to avoid the problem with blue/green and blue/red I just decided that ON did not need a color and off gets Blue around the house.

 

[ano]

Although all 3 brands are compatible, the SA switches are still Gen 1 and have the Blue/Green LED. The PCS/HAI switches are Gen 2 and have the Blue/Red LED's. (Although WebMountain sells Gen 2 versions of the SA dimmer I think it still has the old Blue/Green LED's).

I have some of all 3 and am still trying to decide which we like best, but the WAF dictates that SA switches can't be in viewing range of the PCS/HAI switches due to the conflicting LED colors (sheesh!!!)...

I thought that the SA switches were now Gen2, I have control of the local delay (?) time in upstart on some and on older units I do not have this option. And to avoid the problem with blue/green and blue/red I just decided that ON did not need a color and off gets Blue around the house.

And the old SA switches are RED and GREEN, but I thought HAI had switches that could do ANY color. I'm glad they all worked together to standardize this color LED color thing. :blink:

 

[WayneW]

I thought that the SA switches were now Gen2, I have control of the local delay (?) time in upstart on some and on older units I do not have this option.

Nope, SAI is still Gen I. The delay adjustment has nothing to do with the Gen. The Generation only deals with the core communication protocol, not the feature set. Just a coincidence that they happened at the same time for PCS and/or HAI. So, SAI has multiple editions or versions, but only 1 generation. :blink:

 

[nightwalker]

I had some of the same issues with the LED's and the wife telling me they had to match. Generally we don't use the LED on switches unless, the load they are controlling is out of sight. Like an outdoor light or the lights in the attic. The keypads with LED's in each button are the only way to go and make the unit so much more useful. As much as I like PCS and SA products I ended up with mostly HAI for the keypads alone. I just can't imagine having a keypad that wouldn't show it's status. The status of a particular light isn't so important but when you use a keypad press to trigger something besides a light, like a link to put the house in an away mode, knowing the status at a glance becomes very important.

 

[ano]

I thought that the SA switches were now Gen2, I have control of the local delay (?) time in upstart on some and on older units I do not have this option.

Nope, SAI is still Gen I. The delay adjustment has nothing to do with the Gen. The Generation only deals with the core communication protocol, not the feature set. Just a coincidence that they happened at the same time for PCS and/or HAI. So, SAI has multiple editions or versions, but only 1 generation. :blink:

I would wonder if that is really true. WebMountain has a switch which they claim is Gen2, has removable faceplates and is made by SA. Why would they get a Gen2 switch to resell, when SA themselves were still selling Gen1 switches? I bet SA is selling Gen2 switches, they just probably don't say it on the web site. Do you know for a fact they aren't Gen2?

 

[robolo]

I would wonder if that is really true. WebMountain has a switch which they claim is Gen2, has removable faceplates and is made by SA. Why would they get a Gen2 switch to resell, when SA themselves were still selling Gen1 switches? I bet SA is selling Gen2 switches, they just probably don't say it on the web site. Do you know for a fact they aren't Gen2?

This was discussed a little while back in this thread. According to those "in the know" it was a marketing or licensing decision. According to AnthonyZ " Simply Automated is not manufacturing the dimmers with GenII firmware (as I understand it). That firmware upgrade is done in house at WM and is fully licensed. The way it's been described to me is that SA didn't want to pony up for the PCS licensing fees. "

 

[LightenUP]

Gen II was designed to co-exist in retro fit environments with other triac driven dimmers. Lutron Maestro's and others were everywhere and becomming problematic for some integrators dealing with noise and not finding ways to filter and losing profit to time inspecting the electrical system. SA pushes GEN I as perfectly good to use and if you have noise try to filter it. I think noise should always be determined as a potential reliability concern.

I choose to do business with Web Mtn and am pleased with Gen II but it still is not full proof. In some cases I was not able to get UPB to work at all. Other cases the noise is affecting Gen II like variable speed pool pumps.

I have only dropped back and punted once from a job due to them having an entire Luton system in a very large home. Even with the Web Mtn timer plugged directly into the App Mod, no communication. Very rare and strange. We may have been able to improve things there but the expense and time was not worth it to the home owner. Bummer, I always view these as learning sessions and an opportunity to prove the UPB protocal.

With all that said, you should also know that the SA and Web Mtn switches can handle loads directly even if changing to a multi button. The other manufaturers of multi button controllers have no local load control.