UPB Noise problems!!

DeLicious

Active Member
well, today we had the first snow in Dallas for the year (probably the only one). When I got home this evening, none of my UPB links worked... UPStart's diagnostic utility shows maximum noise on the power lines. Could this be caused by snow and/or ice on the outside lines? There's nothing plugged in inside the house that wasn't plugged in before...

any ideas???
 
My UPB instillation died last weekend, nothing was working. UPstart didn't find any noise just couldn't find any devices. Finally found out a UPS had tripped when the power went out but when the juice came back on it was sucking all the UPB signals. I replaced the UPS and all is well again. So .. Did your power go out or have you plugged any new devices in ?
 
i'm pretty sure my power didn't go out as my desktop computer was still running with multiple people logged in, so it didn't get rebooted... i have no UPS in the house, so that wouldn't be a problem.

whoa!! looks like everything caught up... according to UPStart, there is still noise on the powerline, but more sporadically now, apparently enough for links to get through though...

still a mystery
 
ok, noise is back... no links working again... can't tell you what changed; nothing that we did actively, that's for sure.
 
again, no active change to anything by me or my wife, and now, no noise whatsoever, which is what the normal status is for the system... it only takes one catastrophic incident like this to make me very angry with the whole system...
 
Could the power company have used a backup generator or standby generator that didn't have clean power like the normal power plant ? Just thinking "out loud" here.
 
ya, i guess that's possible. would a whole house surge protector filter out and protect me from something like that?
 
DeLicious said:
again, no active change to anything by me or my wife, and now, no noise whatsoever, which is what the normal status is for the system... it only takes one catastrophic incident like this to make me very angry with the whole system...
I understand your frustration but thats life with PLC and why I recommend hardwire whenever possible. As good as UPB is, it is not magic. But as frustrated as you are, know that X10 or Insteon would almost certainly have done the same thing in a case like this.
 
Snow on the power lines creating noise? It is possible. Snow packing on an insulater may create paths for arcing. A tree branch whipped in the wind could havea similar effect. Odd that it would be at the UPB frequency... sounds like Murphy at work.
 
DeLicious said:
ya, i guess that's possible. would a whole house surge protector filter out and protect me from something like that?
don't know. I have one and have never experienced what you are seeing... but then again I doubt many people ever have
 
I've had a VERY similar situation going on the last few days. I thought the issue was a problem crossing phases, but it seems to be much more than that.

For example, 45 minutes ago, I had 0 noise on the line, all devices worked although signal was low on the "opposite" phased devices. Now I have enough noise on the lines that I can't cross phases with commands. I have checked all things I can think of in the house that can turn themselves on/off. Fridge, Freezer, furnace, etc etc. I moved the PLC across phases and the problem seems the same on both sides.

It was so bad earlier this afternoon that I went through and replaced all my UPB with X10 for my xmas displays. The X10 is working great no matter the UPB noise status. Go figure.

This whole thing has me very close to placing my first order for ZWave.


**EDIT**

Forgot to mention that I thought a phase couple would help. Bought the SAI Plug-Through type from AO, however, when I had 0 noise, I would have say 4 signal strength cross phase. That did not change at all with the coupler. Kinda disappointing.....
 
Do the noise happens all the time or intermittent?

Its understandable to link the new effect (noise) to the new event (snowfall), but there migth be other events causing the noise. Per instance, if a neightbor bought a new applicance light one of those smoothtop ranges or an electronic device with a very dirty switching power supply.
 
I think we're onto something with this thread gentleman. I hope we can keep it going as we have reason to believe that the UPB guys are tuned in. I'll add my 2 cents.

Occasionally, on Friday and Saturday nights between the hours of 8pm-ish and 2am-ish, I hit off the charts noise on one-phase of my powerline. The noise is so severe I lose cross phase powerline communications. Signal level is high, but not enough to power-through the noise.

I am as certain as I can be that this noise in not generated in my home, having gone through all the usual troubleshooting techniques. I live in Austin - right in the heart of the 6th Street district - and believe my humble abode shares a transformer with many of the live music clubs nearby. My theory is that some AV equipment that the bands may use is the source of this excessive noise. It doesn't happen every weekend, but when it does, it's always between the hours of 8pm and 3am (the bars close here at 2am). I have watched this phenomenon carefully over the last 7 months that I've had UPB installed.

Other background items:
1. I have a 3-phase residential PIM. For those of you unfamiliar, this PIM is wired directly into each phase at the breaker box and serially connects direct to a PC.
2. During the noisy period, keypads on the noisy phase have a strong enough signal to overcome the noise and communicate successfully to all devices on that phase (but not to devices on the other zero noise phase)
3. During the noisy period, if I install a separate PIM directly on the noisy phase, the signal is strong enough to overcome the noise and communicate successfully to all devices on that phase (but not to devices on the other, zero noise phase).
4. During the noisy period, x10 communications are successful to all phases.
5. I have 2 ACT AF120 15amp filters on the noisy phase. From Upstart I can clearly see that they attentuate the noise to some degree, but not enough to make a difference.

While this is frustrating, I have no intentions of giving up on UPB. Just too happy with it. It would be terrific to have some way for UPB to overcome this issue, but in the meantime, I have a workaround plan of attack (for computer control, does not address standlone UPB).

2 PIMS.
As a given, No. 3 above (a separate PIM on the noisy phase works fine).
One workhorse, everyday PIM, and one dedicated to the noisy phase during potential problem times.

Since I run both HomeSeer and MLServer, I should be able to run 2 PIMS off separate serial ports serving the two different applications. HomeSeer will keep the everyday workhorse PIM, and the 2nd, backup PIM will be assigned to MLServer.

So, the gist is, during Friday and Saturday nights, HomeSeer will instruct MLServer to execute backup UPB commands to the noisy phase through its own dedicated PIM that's installed on the noisy phase.

It's a hack, but it should work. Cinemar released their UPB driver in the wee hours this morning, so I should be able to test the concept later today.


 
SAI does have special UPB filters, they just do not publicize them. Maybe these can help? Also it would probably be great if they can perhaps build a whole home 200A filter that can protect your house from any outside factors. Perhaps Brad (UPBSeer) can comment? (I know its not a subject they like to talk about, but it seems like it may be prevalent enough where it needs to be addressed)
 
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