want camera but don't know how to deal with this

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Hi folks,

Last year, I installed wiring all over the house. I installed wiring above the front main door, underneath the porch's roof or above eaves. I don't know how they call it. h34r: I think I put 2 RG6quad and CAT5e or 1 RG6QUAD and 2 CAT5e. I don't recall anymore. I will have to check my notes. Anyways, please look at the picture below. Can someone please guide me on how I can remove that white metal ceiling(the one with many parallel lines) so I can pull the cables? I will actually be using those wires for camera. I will do some research once I figure how to pull the cable. I marked the drawing with blue circle to point where the cables are.

Thanks in advance!

Neil

 

[electron]

I believe that's called soffit. Only useful link I could find about how to remove this is this:
http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=276955

Hopefully someone else can chime in, been years since I dealt with this stuff.

 

[brotsten]

We build our soffits out of wood or Hardiplank, don't know about the metal. I would guess the trim around it is covering the attachment points.

How far away are you mounting the camera, can you drill a hole in the sheet metal and fish the wire out?

Brian

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

I will search in my videos and pictures how it look before it had that soffit. This way, I will have a better idea how I'll start. About the camera position, that's another issue. I will do some measurements on the height of the wood around the soffit. I'll do more research.

Thanks folks! :blink:

 

[123]

I guess it all depends on the size of hole you need to extract the cables. The soffit material may buckle if it is thin-gauge aluminum and you apply too much pressure with a large drill bit. If you use a standard spade bit, it may create an ugly, jagged hole (spade bits are for wood). Theoretically, a hole-saw should make a neater hole (but don't press too hard). I'd avoid using a Forstner bit.

I've successfully made a 6" hole in metal siding (galvanized steel; not aluminum) using a rotary tool equipped with a spiral-saw bit. The spiral-saw bit resembles a traditional drill bit but has a modified cutting-edge that permits it to cut along its length. Although spiral-saw bits are typically used for cutting openings in drywall, they also work well for soffit/siding made of aluminum, vinyl, and OSB (Oriented Strand Board). Naturally, they cut drywall effortlessly and take more time with wood and metal. Draw a circle, make a hole anywhere on the circle's diameter using the spiral-saw bit and then guide the bit along the circle's diameter.

Alternately, you can study how the soffit material is installed, remove a few panels, drill whatever holes you need and reinstall them. I was forced to do this (minus any drilling of holes) in order to remove two huge wasp nests.

Ensure the soffit material has sufficient strength to support the camera. I can't speak for residential security systems but for commercial applications (I work for a company that specializes in the design and installation of commercial video-surveillance systems) cameras are attached to robust surfaces like walls/ceilings/poles made of brick/concrete/metal/wood. The camera should be able to resist attempts to dislodge/remove/vandalize it. Your goal should be to make the camera difficult to render inoperative.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Neil;

From another perspective... I don't think you will be happy with the camera mounted over-head (from where visitors will be standing at your front door) like that. Can you get it more towards the front of the door looking down?

 

[CollinR]

Neil;

From another perspective... I don't think you will be happy with the camera mounted over-head (from where visitors will be standing at your front door) like that. Can you get it more towards the front of the door looking down?

x2 It's much better above the doorbell, where people look when they come to the porch.

Also

If you choose a recessed dome, it needs a 4"-6" hole. More then enough room to stick your whole arm in and pull the wires through.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Here is a very good news! On my way out my house, I saw a builder's contractor guy working on the porch on my neighbor's house. I approached him nicely and asked him how to remove the soffit. It was a perfect moment because he was working near the soffit. First thing I need to do is remove the nail. Then the metal soffit, is actually just 3 strips in one piece, about 12" wide. Since the metal is soft, all I have to do is compress on both sides and it will bend easily, allowing me to insert my hand on the side and .

And here is the best part, he told me that removing the nail can cause 95% dents. Right at that moment, he had about 12 ft soffit that he gave to me for free! :blink:

 

[rfdesq]

And here is the best part, he told me that removing the nail can cause 95% dents. Right at that moment, he had about 12 ft soffit that he gave to me for free! :blink:

Neil, you must be living right.

 

[123]

...
he had about 12 ft soffit that he gave to me for free! :blink:

Good for you!
Now that you see how "bendy" the stuff really is you must realize that it makes for a very poor base for a camera. Access is no longer a hurdle, so you can add some sort of backing plate, behind the soffit panel, to secure the camera. A square of plywood is a good start.

Others have raised the very valid point that the desired location may not be ideal; the camera will literally have a bird's eye view. I strongly recommend you test the camera's field-of-vision before permanently mounting it anywhere. Temporarily set up the camera so you can monitor its output and have a helper with a step-ladder place it in several spots. Step "into the picture" and pick the camera position providing the best view of your face. The optimal spot is in front of and slightly above the subject.

One of my friends installed the following camera on the wall just above and to the left of his home's front door.
http://www.smartvisiondirect.com/index.php...&query=item

It is a "vandal-proof dome" and is small, unobtrusive, difficult to dislodge (mounted on a brick wall; you can hang off it) and it has a clear view of the visitor.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Yep, I will not mount it anymore on the thin metal soffit. Now, I just need to find out how to make the cables stealthy if I'm going to put it to the location you guys have recommended.

123, can your friend post a sample shot from this camera? Can that camera see at night?

 

[CollinR]

123, can your friend post a sample shot from this camera? Can that camera see at night?

For better night performance steer clear of IR cameras and consider a black and white model.


EDIT:

To add, I also do think that vandal domes are the best solution for this application. They can be the best compromise in quality and functionality, however the good ones are more $.


I also have a "blank" vandal dome, so you can mount also anything you like inside it. As such the dome is cheap and you can paint it to match the home without concern as the housing itself rarely fails.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

123, can your friend post a sample shot from this camera? Can that camera see at night?

For better night performance steer clear of IR cameras and consider a black and white model.


EDIT:

To add, I also do think that vandal domes are the best solution for this application. They can be the best compromise in quality and functionality, however the good ones are more $.


I also have a "blank" vandal dome, so you can mount also anything you like inside it. As such the dome is cheap and you can paint it to match the home without concern as the housing itself rarely fails.

I know I'm asking too much :blink:, can you please post at least 3 models that are really nice and reliable but not really expensive. I would like to set my range between $90-$150.

Also, do we have IR security camera tutorial in cocoontech website? I would like to read up on it so I will know how it is connected and what components are needed other than cables.

Thanks!

Neil

 

[CollinR]

I know I'm asking too much :blink:, can you please post at least 3 models that are really nice and reliable but not really expensive. I would like to set my range between $90-$150.

Doesn't exist in a vandal dome, and part numbers for the bullets that would are OEM so you would have real troubles finding them and then pay large shipping to bring Qty 1 into the US.

EDIT:

Looks like the Arm Electronics B600MD2VAIVP is about as close as you can get, still like $170 + shipping. I'm not a big Arm fan either.

http://armelectronics.com/specs/B600MDVAIVP.pdf

Ex-View doesn't really do low light as well as super HAD although the specs say different, the EX-View will introduce noice into the feed that overcomes it's advantage.

Also, do we have IR security camera tutorial in cocoontech website? I would like to read up on it so I will know how it is connected and what components are needed other than cables.

IR or actually near infrared light is used because the human eye cannot detect it, for residental on your front porch you are better off with a porch light. It should only be used when you desire covert surveillence, otherwise conventional lighting is far supierior. Use landscape lighting or floodlights or...

The reason I do not sell cameras with integrated IR (right now!) is the design is poorly implemented, 2 main problems.

1. IR is a spot beam so they can claim a greater distance number, this means it doesn't illuminate the entire FOV. This also means on your porch you are way too close to most of these cameras, anything reflective or even lightly colored will flood the imager. This results in the inability to identify the human at the door, works okay for dogs though.

2. IR spot is parallel to the FOV of the imager, this is what causes the bounceback effect previsouly mentioned. If they diffused the light as it left it would strick the target and scatter in random directions rather then straight back into the cam essentially blinding it.


Also these cameras often have a bleed over effect that produces a halo and haze in the video, that specific model appears to have been designed to avoid that. The lens protrudes past the lens for the IR.

There is only 1 small camera on the market (that I am aware of!) that is a true Day/Night. Typically you must get a vandal dome or fullsize box and housing to get those features. Same for AGC (automatic gain control) which you often want to turn off for night use.


BW is pretty superior to color in everything but identifing cars.

I think it might be possible for me to build one in a blank in that budget, it would be close though if you are die hard for color. Otherwise should be easy and there are BW options over the counter.

 

[CollinR]

Example:

No way to identify that guy or err alien/wolfman thing.

As they get closer to the camera (on the porch) his face will look like his shirt does in that capture.