What is the point of Elk or other controllers?

[adt2]

...that is a very drawn out topic with many threads here discussing it; AC/DC/battery backup power, panel connected/not connected, local code requirements, etc., etc.

 
Yeah, I knew it was a long, drawn-out topic, but I prefer to keep it all in a single post so I can easily reference it later. I don't really need to know every nut, bolt, and screw required for every possible permutation in advance. I just want to make sure when I place my order, I've got everything I need to get my first project up and running. I hate having to order additional pieces and then wait around for them to show up just so I can finish the project.

 

[adt2]

Okay, slow day here at work, which has given me time to surf the internet. On a whim, I checked out the Omni Pro II controller. Leviton's website isn't great, but from what I can tell, the Omni includes a lot - if not all - of the stuff that's an "extra" with the Elk. Am I reading that right? The price of the Omni is higher, but if I'm going to have to turn around and add a bunch of extra boxes to the Elk, then it might be easier to just go with the Omni if the capabilities are the same.
 
Thoughts?

 

[inline]

I've seen some say when the burglar alarm goes off, all lights on.  I would disagree with this statement.  I would say if it's a two story home with bedrooms on the second floor, only turn on the first floor lighting.  You'll have a tactical advantage in that you can see (and if need be, aim on them) without them seeing you.

 

[adt2]

Not sure I agree with that. If I wanted to see them without being seen, I wouldn't turn on anything but the exterior lights, and then I'd wait for them to silhouette themselves (while I stayed away from the doors and windows). Our master bedroom is downstairs (I live in the south; we don't savvy master bedrooms upstairs). The kids' bedrooms are upstairs.
 
All of that being said, I'm a pretty firm believer that a loud noise and bright lights are going to scare away about 99% of bad guys, and the 1% it doesn't scare away is not a bad guy you want to be dealing with, anyway. I think I'm in favor of "blind 'em and deafen 'em".

 

[signal15]

The ELK isn't particularly awesome at home automation, the programming stuff is too limited.  That said, I just moved and just ordered another one today.  It's the most flexible security system I've ever used, and it integrates well with the Vera (which I use for Home Automation logic as it integrates with the Elk). Even if you don't use it for HA, it's a great product.
 
As far as lighting goes, if you're building a new house, put in centralized lighting.  The house I just bought has an old LiteTouch system in it that was installed 18 years ago.  It was $40k back then.  I thought I'd hate it, I ended up loving it after I fixed all of the worn out buttons.  It's got scenes on the buttons, so I can press one button and it lights every light in the path from the bedroom to the kitchen.  It's got built in scheduling.  I can press one button and shut off all of the lights in the house when I go to bed.  But, you don't need to spend $40k to get centralized lighting.  A Centralite Elegance XL system is WAY less money, probably comparable to outfitting your house with a ton of UPB or other communicating switches.  And, IMO, it's better quality.
 
I wrote a plugin for LiteTouch to use it with the Vera, so now I have full control of all of my lighting anywhere in the world through the phone, and I can control my lighting with home automation logic.  As an example, the kids open their bedroom door at night, it will turn on the hall an bathroom lights really low for them, and back off again when the door closes.

 

[picta]

Okay, slow day here at work, which has given me time to surf the internet. On a whim, I checked out the Omni Pro II controller. Leviton's website isn't great, but from what I can tell, the Omni includes a lot - if not all - of the stuff that's an "extra" with the Elk. Am I reading that right? The price of the Omni is higher, but if I'm going to have to turn around and add a bunch of extra boxes to the Elk, then it might be easier to just go with the Omni if the capabilities are the same.
 
Thoughts?

 
Yes, OP2 has a lot of stuff included, Elk is a modular system that allows you to add things gradually. Elk is somewhat better as a security system, HAI is better in automation integration (supports a lot of protocols and allows mixing of lighting technologies). If you are an iOS person, there is a great UI app for HAI called Haiku (there is a separate topic group on this board about it).
 
 

As far as lighting goes, if you're building a new house, put in centralized lighting.  The house I just bought has an old LiteTouch system in it that was installed 18 years ago.  It was $40k back then.  I thought I'd hate it, I ended up loving it after I fixed all of the worn out buttons.  It's got scenes on the buttons, so I can press one button and it lights every light in the path from the bedroom to the kitchen.  It's got built in scheduling.  I can press one button and shut off all of the lights in the house when I go to bed.  But, you don't need to spend $40k to get centralized lighting.  A Centralite Elegance XL system is WAY less money, probably comparable to outfitting your house with a ton of UPB or other communicating switches.  And, IMO, it's better quality.

 
Shhhh, there is nothing better for automation than a hardwired centralized lighting system, but this secret is only known by people who are using such system, the rest prefers fickle and more expensive wireless stuff because of a strong fear of "unconventional wiring"...

 

[signal15]

Shhhh, there is nothing better for automation than a hardwired centralized lighting system, but this secret is only known by people who are using such system, the rest prefers fickle and more expensive wireless stuff because of a strong fear of "unconventional wiring"...

 
Well, to be fair, most people putting in automation have existing homes and it's not really feasible to retrofit centralized lighting unless you're tearing the place up for a total remodel.  If you're building a house and want automation, it's the only way to go.

 

[Desert_AIP]

I've seen some say when the burglar alarm goes off, all lights on.  I would disagree with this statement.  I would say if it's a two story home with bedrooms on the second floor, only turn on the first floor lighting.  You'll have a tactical advantage in that you can see (and if need be, aim on them) without them seeing you.

 
 I kill the Master Suite Lights and all fans in the house, and turn on all the other lights inside and out.

 

[adt2]

So what does something like a Centralite Elegance system cost in relation to 40 or so UPB switches? Is it possible that a portion of the cost of the hardwired system would be offset by the smaller amount of copper to be run by the electricians? Is a controller still required to interface between the lights and everything else?

Since this is new construction, there's no reason I can't go with a hardwired system if that's a better deal.

 

[Del91574]

Centralized does not cut down on the amount of copper run....it increases it, as well as the labor involved.
 
To oversimplify to a 1:1 "typical" new construction 40 breaker 200A service....you're going to have the equivalent of 2 more circuit breaker boxes to mount, wire and the added materials to do such. Labor ain't cheap either.

 

[picta]

It depends on the project and its size. You need more copper to the fixtures since each will be individually controlled, but less romex to the switches. As a DIY you can save by running cat5 to switch locations yourself. For 96+ loads the total cost will be less than for conventional wiring with UPB, but for smaller system it will cost more. I would say that if you only have 40 loads, then UPB is a better value choice.

 

[adt2]

Is this assuming a dealer installed system? I think I have a distributor that will sign me up as a dealer, which should save me money on gear, and I'll do all the non-HV stuff myself.

 

[picta]

So how many lighting and appliance loads are you planning on? Elegance requires one MCP for up to 176 loads, this will increase cost per load in a small system. I would also get a quote from your electrician for both ways of wiring, in my experience there was less time used to run a straight wire from load to the control location than it would to wire the same lights in a conventional way. No drilling through top plates was need as the wiring was in the attic. Having 2 breaker boxes in opposite sides of the house also has saved time and romex costs.

 

[adt2]

Quick, totally unscientific tally puts the count at something like 60 loads.

 

[picta]

The break-even gear cost is 96 loads using my numbers from 6 years ago, so UPB will be less expensive for you. There is a newer system from HAI, called omnibus, it is more modular than elegance, so it may be worth taking a look at.