What is wrong with CQC?

I would have a little trouble believing the corporate world would replace its servers with new ones from what is essentially a consumer electronics company, for whom phones and gadgets are their primary products and focus (as best I can tell.) That wouldn't make me all that confident that my server needs would continue to get the attention it needs.
 
OK, in the interests of full disclosure, re the discussion above about issues not being able to reconnect to the RA2 system after a power failure... it turned out to be my fault. The driver depends on async notifications of changes, but it will ping the device if its not gotten one within 30 seconds, to make sure it's still alive. But the low level msg reader was resetting the 'last seen msg' timestamp even if it wasn't getting a msg, so that 30 seconds never arrived. That error was probably introduced at some point after the initial driver release I guess, and it was just one of those "so obvious you can't see it" problems.
 
So anyway, better late than never as they say. So the driver should now recover within 30 seconds of the power coming back. Or, if in some way you managed to update or soft reset the repeater such that it stopped sending async notifications as well I guess.
 
pete_c said:
The sales of Android OS phones increase has happened exponentially and globally in less than 3 years.

Domestically the market is close; internationally Android outsells Apple XXX times over.
 
The market share of an OS really makes little difference if those people will not be buying home automation software they want to control.  I suspect many Android users won't be automating their homes anytime soon. I also suspect many people with automated homes DO have Apple devices. 
 
If you your looking for the market of people that are most likely to buy your home automation software, I would look toward the people that buy premium devices, not the ones that expect to get their OS for free and are willing to suffer with no support.
 
Here is some new competition that appeared in my email box this morning being sold by a large provider of security / automation widgets.  Initially I could not figure out where the company was based.
 
I am wondering about the price tag and whether it will be sold as a premium installable by dealers only system through a closed network or not?
 
Personally the trending will probably be that a deluxe with all of the bells and whistles all inclusive home automation system will be sold with at a premium price with added installation and monthly support costs because its just an easy button thing.
 
zipato.jpg
 
Here's something that's been creeping into my conscious lately... I'm slowly losing interest in HA and a lot of it has to do with stuff like that thing Pete posted and other cloud "boxes" that bring remote control into almost anyone's reach. I run into some of these type occasionally and they boast about opening their garage door, adjusting their Nest, etc. remotely and I mention that I've been doing the same in one form or another for ~20 years. I'll then go on to mention that remote control is easy, but the true art (?) is when the home starts thinking for itself, predicting it's inhabitants actions and using advanced rules, event triggers, etc... It's about then that their eyes glaze over and I give up.
 
I get the whole thing about broad adoption driving increased innovation and lower prices, blah blah blah... I just feel like the hobby was more sexy back when there was a certain elitism to it. Not that I want to go back to it, but way back when Mr. House was the new thing and if you didn't want X10 you were developing your own HW devices things just seemed a little more fun than button placement on a screen or deciding between IOS or Android... Maybe it's just the old HA tinkerer in me coming out - I also miss the cool projects that used to show up here on CT.
 
Ok nostalgia-rant over...
 
Terry
 
Yeah, I get that....
roussell said:
Here's something that's been creeping into my conscious lately... I'm slowly losing interest in HA and a lot of it has to do with stuff like that thing Pete posted and other cloud "boxes" that bring remote control into almost anyone's reach. I run into some of these type occasionally and they boast about opening their garage door, adjusting their Nest, etc. remotely and I mention that I've been doing the same in one form or another for ~20 years. I'll then go on to mention that remote control is easy, but the true art (?) is when the home starts thinking for itself, predicting it's inhabitants actions and using advanced rules, event triggers, etc... It's about then that their eyes glaze over and I give up.
 
I get the whole thing about broad adoption driving increased innovation and lower prices, blah blah blah... I just feel like the hobby was more sexy back when there was a certain elitism to it. Not that I want to go back to it, but way back when Mr. House was the new thing and if you didn't want X10 you were developing your own HW devices things just seemed a little more fun than button placement on a screen or deciding between IOS or Android... Maybe it's just the old HA tinkerer in me coming out - I also miss the cool projects that used to show up here on CT.
 
Ok nostalgia-rant over...
 
Terry
 
I don't know if I have similar thoughts but they aren't far off...when I wanted to have automation, I didn't have the money to go all out but like tinkering all the time.  Now that I have the money, I don't have the time or inclination to tinker.  LOL.
 
The words home automation dont mean what they say.
 
Put an app on the phone to control something and all of a sudden its home automation - gove me a break.  The phone is just becomoing another remte control.  Actually, the phone is becomming a coffee table with all the apps having to be installed a remote on that table.  You still have to "pick up" an individual remote to control something.
 
This is whereproduts like CQC are leading the charge.  True home automation.
 
I have used CQC since 2005 - yes it was a steep learning curve and I am not at the point where I can manage to write my own drivers which I think is one of the best selling points.
 
Too many times I have seen products that are closed and you rely on the supplier to support the device you have.  Being able to use a product that best suits me and then integrate it into my HA system is one really big bonus.
 
Now I know that not everyone can write drivers (I really struglle as I am not a code monkey), but still havig the ability for one to write a one off driver is very important.  If you are not capable of writing a driver, post a request on the CQC forums.  There are many there that ar willing to help and it will not cost you a fortune to get it done.  Of course, using something that a lot of others are using makes life a little easier.
 
I currently run about 5 custom drivers for my house - this is not something that could be acieved on any other system (that I am aware of).
 
Some of the cons I see for CQC are the lack of standardised windows interface and keyboard shortcuts.  Dean, for what ever reason, sees the need to write everything from scratch and this has led to inconsistencies across the package.  Not big issues, but enough to be noticable and for someone who is competant in using keyboard shortcuts consistently, it can get annoying.  Not sure why he does not want to use the standard chrome.
 
The Interface Viewer needs some work.  Well not the viewer itself, but the widgets used in it.  The options are getting a little limited and dated looking.  Stuff like a dial gauge dont exist and a user cant make one themselves (not in a clean easy fasion).  Trends and graphs are near impossible as well.
 
But looking past these minor issues, CQC has to be one of the best HA utilities out there.  When W10 comes out for the rPi, and CQC can run on that, I think there will be a great little cheap solution for those wanting to run a small system.
 
Keep up the good work Dean - you havemy continued support
 
znelbok said:
Now I know that not everyone can write drivers (I really struglle as I am not a code monkey), but still havig the ability for one to write a one off driver is very important.  If you are not capable of writing a driver, post a request on the CQC forums.  There are many there that ar willing to help and it will not cost you a fortune to get it done.  Of course, using something that a lot of others are using makes life a little easier.


Some of the cons I see for CQC are the lack of standardised windows interface and keyboard shortcuts.  Dean, for what ever reason, sees the need to write everything from scratch and this has led to inconsistencies across the package.  Not big issues, but enough to be noticable and for someone who is competant in using keyboard shortcuts consistently, it can get annoying.  Not sure why he does not want to use the standard chrome.
 
I really like that Dean is fairly responsive on getting custom drivers done and at a very reasonable price.  So we just need to grow the user base to get more custom drivers...sounds like a plan to me. :)
 
For a keyboard shortcut afficionado, the CQC Admin interface is annoying...but since I don't use it that much, I've just ignored even talking about it.
 
I have to back up some other poeples comments here. While there are these few small little niggly things in CQC, such as keyboard shortcuts, they are far from a deal breaker. Also have to agree with znelbok above that when it comes to true automation there are a lot of 'remote' type apps that really can't be even considered in the same category.
 
There is little doubt that CQC has a steep learning curve and for me I found it somewhat counter intuitive at the beginning.....(as I did OOP) but if you give it the time to see past the initial counter intuitive nature of the product, the structure does reveal both its reasons and benefits along the path. 
 
The only thing that kept me focused on CQC was the various positive if not passionate reviews from unbiased users that I discovered while doing my research. 
 
I guess the best way to sum up what I see wrong (or more like get it more 'out there') with CQC is as follows;
Prior to looking at CQC I had used one of the hardware based Homevision Pro units to do automation for the particular solution I needed it for. For me the homevision pro unit software was intuitive and it was easy to see the blocks being built as I expanded my project. I'd recommend anyone (including Dean) to take a look at Homevision XL by Schelte Bron at http://hv.tclcode.com/ . For me I found this software easy to use and intuitive and the fact that I rarely had to look at manuals etc. was testament to this.
 
Ok, then I discover CQC because my hardware based controller cant do the level of serial control I need. Also the fully customisable touch screen interfaces, open source drivers and media possibilities are extra sweeteners. It took a good while to figure it out. The whole concept of the event server threw me off initially. In Homevision I could do an instruction like;
If INPUT A HIGH
DELAY 10 min
do something else
 
In CQC I have to go to the field browser for the driver of the input device, create a trigger to be sent out depending on the change of input. Then I have to go to the event server and define there what trigger I want to listen for and what actions to do in response. The list of filters available are extensive but almost to the point that I don't know which one I should/need to use. So my action in this case would be to start up a 10 min countdown timer. Again I have to go back to the field browser to set up another trigger to be sent out when the timer hits zero (after I set up a timer driver btw), and back again to the event server to make sure it picks up that trigger and list another action to execute. So the concept of network triggers and a central event server do indeed make sense when you understand the concept. However for me, moving from a case of being able to do the same thing in 3 lines with the homevison software to this was frustrating, and overly tempting to throw in the towel. It gets frustrating and this can only be overcame with patience. Also the problem with having so much to define for a relatively simple few steps, can make it hard to keep track of all these triggers and so on. This can make diagnosing something not working as expected more difficult also.
 
All the above may not be entirely correct as I am just recalling it from memory but I just want to give an example of how the strength of CQC does certainly become its weakness where new users are concerned. A good analogy is that ~ 90% of people don't go past the first page in google search. They either find it on the first page or they begin to get weary (and lazy) when they need to hit page 2. If you bring that analogy across 90% of the people who try CQC and are not able to get something quite simple up and running in 5 mins will bow out and try something else that 'makes sense' to them. I believe this is where customers are lost all to easily. They need to get their hit fast!
 
I believe CQC has an excellent, robust foundation and the driver/field model is incredibly intuitive and useful. I know Dean has been doing a lot of work on the auto-gen stuff and that is some thing that should be kept alive.
 
However there is a middle ground being missed out on here. And it is the homevision unit above that is the best reference for this point. Its a single window display where I can do all my automation 'programming'. I can implement the idea in my head using this software in a couple of seconds and I don't meet any unnecessary hurdles along the way. CQC cannot do this because its designed to be so extensive. I think this middle ground that is required to get new users 'hooked' lies somewhere between the existing programming interface and the auto-gen stuff. The great thing is however, is that CQC has all the necessary background pipework already. I just think there needs to be a new button on the Admin Interface that allows some quick automation to be done that doesn't require bouncing around between field broswers, event server, adding timer drivers etc. make it simple. Please take this in context of new users only. 
 
One thing I love about CQC are the forums. Everyone there is so helpful and some users are great at informing the community of new products etc that possibly could be used with CQC. Someone takes an interest in one of these products and then a driver is available to all. I like the spirit of it! 
 
I can only wish Dean all the best and he has a long term user on his hands here. Also very clever thread. I hope some lessons can be found
 
The event server is still basically the same. However, these days, with the new V2 drivers, there are standard triggers that get sent out for a number of common things (security zone changes state, light switch changes state, lock changes state, motion started/stopped, presence of something changed, and a couple others I'm too tired to remember.) So you don't have to do those in the old way, and that also means that if you change from one device to another, you'll get the same triggers.
 
I'm not sure about the Home Vision system, but maybe one difference is that it wasn't networked? A complication with a networked system is that the event server can't know about everything that happens without introducing a lot of overhead, since those things are happening on various systems around the network, and there could be thousands of fields that would have to all be forwarded to the event server, 99% of which you'd never care about. In a single box system, everything there is to know is right there in the same box, so this isn't an issue.
 
So that's sort of the reason why you have to tell CQC what you want to trigger events off of. Even with the standard events above, we allow you to disable standard triggers if you want, so that you can reduce the number if a large system. One reason for wanting to do that is that it helps to diagnose issues if something isn't doing what you think it should. If you want to see a list of the triggers that are happening, to figure out what is being sent, you don't have to look through large numbers of triggers that you don't care about to find the ones you do. You can just insure that only the ones you really want to react to are being sent.
 
Brathnach hit it on the head.  its the UI.
 
I cannot remember which forum I posted this in originally hence can not find the post but my opinion of CQC is still the same.  Its the best overall solution.  But it lacks in an area that is simple to identify, UI and first experience.   I mean the UI you encounter within the first second, minutes and hour of install and use.
 
Look at apple.  You design for what people can use easily and is shiny, and they buy it.  They have proven that with an MP3 player, a phone, computers, etc etc.  Their ideas were rarely brand new, they were just polished and made easy to use.  You buy an iphone, you open it, one touch on a cloud, and weather pops up.  Grandma can do it!  
 
An example of this issue I experienced on my trial...
 
I tested CQC and wanted to design a simple UI for a tablet, as my wife's interface to the system will make or break its viability.  I watched the videos on how to install (this should not be necessary), installed with some effort, watched how to make a UI, started the layout etc etc.  OK, I think I got it...create a button.  AWESOME!  Now add a graphic...wait.  Where is that graphic?  Why can I not find it? I saved it right to that specific folder.
 
It took me like an hour to realize I had to import the graphic to CQC before I could use it.  I mean I am on a windows box, using a program that looks and functions like I am using a windows file browser, but its actually limited to browsing only its own inventory.  That's just not how any program in the windows environment works.  Its counter intuitive from the OS itself. At a minimum, the file browser should see everything and auto import the file if need be.  
 
I can tell from your statements and insights that your software was designed to address issues identified with other software and be robust, but its like you never went back and made is easy to use.  It still fails to meet the "can my mom make it work" test.  And yes, even CQC does need to meet that test for at least a minimal set of hardware or first hour of use.
 
I think it would also help to identify a set of hardware you support (as a default and in full) and give yourself a running shot at being the default software for that base.  Haiku is doing it for HAI now...  
 
You have an awesome engine, but it needs a minimal specific target and a clean, streamlined install that the UI functions how people expect it to (not necessarily how you want it to).  In my eyes, its your job to make it function like they expect, but execute how you know is best.  Right now, it functions based on how you designed it to execute.  You need someone (not a programmer, preferably not a tech person) to tell you what they expect it to do as they utilize it.
 
Summary:
Right now you have a huge truck that can carry anything and outrun anyone, but your not aimed at any particular market segment.  And your truck looks and feels like a manual in a world of automatics.  You do not need anything new, or even adjust your price, you need to identify your market, aim at it, do some body work on the truck to fit that target, and start selling it.
 
If the market is dwindling or changing, that's a different issue.  You either adapt or end up like blackberry.  Past their time and out of mind.  It is a business after all is said and done.
 
Just my 0.02.
 
And Dean...I believe you need to slow your thinking in terms of Variables, Triggers etc. as being required to achieve this or that for some of this discussion and take a step back.   Your caught in your own view of the CQC program from a programmers perspective.
 
We are talking about HOW the system designer interfaces with CQC.  Like a mouse used to operate computer, not how the mouse communicates to the computer.  Ano touched on it with his discussion of HTML pages and Brathnach with his Home Vision points. 
 
Several users have all pointed at the same point in the hierarchy of the programs use (me included).  The interface to it.  Be it the how (HTML), the design (Home Vision), or the polish.  Homeseer and Elve did not have this issue as far as I know (although they had/have others).  I would study those examples and determine what people like about the designers interface.
 
Could that possibly correlate to the steep learning curve so many mention as well?  i.e. people should not need to understand how CQC works for initial use if the UI is presented in a more instinctual manner.  The auto generation does not address this particular point as it precedes the auto generators use.
 
Ano will insist its the HTML interface of course :)
 
I like your first post Bal...communicates some of my thinking as well.
 
I've been in a business where there was a visionary and a strict business/numbers person.  The company was incredibly successful when they were both involved but there was a time that the visionary had some personal issues and checked out of the day to day operations.  The company ended up going from about 400 people down to about 200-250 before the visionary took back over.  The business still hasn't recovered.  When the balance was there, the business was incredibly successful.
 
To me this is what I think is missing with CQC.  While a second person on the user interface/tech writing/design side might be helpful, it might not be realistic for CQC.  But without that thinking, you can build the best CQC, the best home automation software, but it won't necessarily be the most successful.  So Dean, time to expand your hat collection from a dozen to about 20. :)  You really do need to challenge yourself with new questions and say, if I were doing this again from scratch, what would I change to address these issues...and then figure out a way to get there.  Then again, I hope and expect that is the point of this thread.
 
As I told my cousin when he was recently asking me about a new business...the best technology doesn't always win.  Sometimes better marketing or deals allows VHS to beat Betamax or Bluray to beat HD-DVD. 
 
David
 
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