Where to learn about CCTV residential surveillance systems, devices, designs....

[ecborgoyn]

OK, this forum has been a great resource for me to learn about residential security and HA systems. I'm currently finalizing an Elk M1G system to replace my old and ailing Westec 5000 system. Hope to have it up and running within a month or so.

Next on my list is a whole-house-audio and a CCTV surveillance system. The latter is an easier sell to the wife, so I'll start there....

I see some discussion on this forum, but not a lot. I've found a few other forums 'out there' and will start some intensive reading.

BUT, where do the folks on this site recommend that I start? At this point I don't have a system budget in mind (I need to first see what devices and features cost). My only initial thoughts are: IP-POE cameras (real 802.3af/at style), and some DVR appliance. Beyond that I've done a bit of reading vendor sites like Vivotek, Axis, etc

Do folks have favorite camera vendors? DVR vendors?

Thanks. I have a LOT to learn....

 

[Del91574]

We typically use Axis and Mobotix, with a few variances here and there. Verint is another popular item.

Since you're considering IP, the best option would be to move into an NVR or hybrid DVN type recorder.

Budget and install size would be the first items to look into, because without knowing what the intended budget is, you may get a huge sticker shock in comparison to an analog setup.

 

[electron]

http://www.cctvforum.com/ is a popular one, but I would love to see you work through these projects on this site, so we all can learn We have many experts on this site (including DELInstallations, who has been extremely helpful!), and plenty of us have CCTV systems so we can compare results/specs.

I think an affordable DVR which also supports IP cameras is the holy grail for now, but a PC based system isn't out of reach.

I personally have a 2 pronged approach:

• hardwired analog CCTV cameras, connected to a H264 capable DVR (supporting D1 resolutions). I have some of the cameras also spliced to go into an Axis IP adapter, so I can use Vitamin D on a PC which has better motion detection than most DVRs. So if the PC is down, I still have the video on my regular DVR, but if the PC is enabled, I also get useful notifications.
• I also have a few IP HD cameras, which can only be interfaced with Vitamin D for now, but I made sure to cover all important angles with analog cameras as well.

If you want a 'good' system, you will have to learn about resolutions, angles, how natural will affect video quality, motion detection (and its limitations). Here is a great video created by the FBI explaining best practices for CCTV systems. It's a great start.

While many people are happy with the big box CCTV kits, most don't realize that they might not be that helpful when you need to recognize faces and other important features. This is where Mobotix, Axis and a few other manufacturers really stand out (but you really pay for this).

 

[js19707]

FWIW, someone here posted a pointer a little while back to a great thread on a different forum. It's 64 pages long(!), but I found it well worth my time to read and feel like I learned a lot. The person who started that thread also includes some stills captured from a number of different types of cameras (analog and IP, with and without built-in IR and standalone IR illuminators), including Mobotix. People have asked the OP a number of questions about best system for a number of different price points and the inherent tradeoffs. He also discusses a number of installations (ones he's done and ones he's 'fixed') so I feel I have some better insight into what (not) to do when it comes time to install my own.

I was already leaning towards Mobotix but feel much more inclined to spend the $$ now. I still have a number of questions I still need answered, but knowing that there's someone here at CT who has experience with Mobotix, I'll probably post them up here when I get some time.

 

[ecborgoyn]

Thanks for the pointers. I previously stumbled upon cctvforum. I need to do some intensive lunchtime reading on the referenced sites...

I WILL try to keep the discussion on this forum as best possible.

I HAVE already learned one thing today: A DVR and NVR are NOT equivalent.... I helps immensely having the correct TLA's (three letter acronyms) and terminology.

One issue aside from technology that I need to address is camera placement (and for that matter camera 'form factor'). My current thoughts are a collection of fixed outdoor cameras. I need to think about this while doodling on a property layout.

 

[Del91574]

I would also state, while that link does have valid information, keep in mind all the hardware I saw (without wading through the entire post) is 3+ years old and most of it being obsolete atond no longer manufactured.

The points I can make regarding hardware is to plan the infrastructure first, which would help in the choice of a DVR, NVR or hybrid DVN. Also, think about if this is going to be done in phases or over a period of time. Most manufacturers will state the longevity of a HDD in constant use, such as servers and recorders as being on borrowed time anything after 4 years. This is also assuming the unit is installed in a clean area in line with a data center or server farm, as anything else, the dirt/dust in normal areas is typically drawn in by the unit's cooling fans and deposited on boards or drawn into drives, with the most common failure being thermal, caused by the dirt/dust forming a big blanket on components. Another thing I found out is on a RAID array, the multiple drives start setting up harmonics that cause the HDD arms to float or crash over time.

Unfortunately, one of our sites has HDD failure about once a week on multiple units and RSS arrays which we had a long meeting with the manufacturer and engineers where I've had to go through all of this and learn a little too much about recording and HDD's in units.

 

[electron]

Are they using Extreme Environment drives? While they are more expensive, I have had pretty good success with them in hostile environments.

But I couldn't agree more, infrastructure will dictate what type of hardware you have to go with.

 

[Del91574]

Are they using Extreme Environment drives? While they are more expensive, I have had pretty good success with them in hostile environments.
But I couldn't agree more, infrastructure will dictate what type of hardware you have to go with.

Oh yes...we sat down for at least a day with the manufacturer and engineers that came down to the site. There's around 100 DVR's onsite with another 60-70 RSS's with 15 drives apiece, with the DVR having 1-2 normally (depending on age). These drives are failing well before the 4 year mark and the issues lie with the design, as we're typically losing the inner drives in their RSS', not to mention the harmonic issues, even though their guys said they set the units up to run different speeds and cycles.

This is the same company that has had engineering issues with their NVR's and software. We have a few other sites running their NVR's and client software. The last version of their client software was so buggy they abandoned it and started new, no patches or anything, and all the workstations, servers, NVR's and encoders needed to be upgraded and run through, which was another issue....we've got 2 sites with anywhere from 15-30 NVR's X 32 cams each. We're running about 400 Mbps written to disk with another 400 Mbps being viewed live per NVR. Now the workstations that were running fine before are maxed out and marginal at best.

I won't slam them publicly, however it appears their entire product line has some engineering issues or "light" on that aspect, from cameras to recorders and encoders. Their product was pulled out of MSG and they were fined heavily because of non-performance....2400 cameras with 3 years of retention at better than 4CIF, all pulled out and replaced at their expense for parts.

Gotta love a client's spec that specifies garbage hardware based on economics rather than performance.