which Cat6 cable to get?

[Mr Spock]

Sorry if this question has been asked before...

Not clear to me what kind of Cat6 cable to specify for a new home construction. Will run miles of this stuff for everything from a 1Gig network to IR blasters to Nuvo audio control panels to even some line level audio (this one might be a bit chancy). For future proofing I'm not even going to bother with Cat5.

There are a lot of types to pick from. Don't think I need the plenum rated stuff (CMP) as none will be routed in ducting. The wiring from the server room will be in conduit to the attic where it distributes out. But once its in the attic from there it might get non-conduited to each end point (riser?). Not sure how that part will play out.

Questions:
1) Stranded vs. solid?
2) CM, CMR, and CMG? Which is necessary?
3) I've read about possibly not wanting to mix and match cable brands with other manufacturers connectors. True?
4) Can you use Cat 5e connectors with Cat 6 wire?
5) What about crimp tools? I have a CAT5 crimp tool that I once tried to use on CAT6 cable with horrible results. I never could get all 8 wires to connect.

Thanks.

P.S planning on getting as much as possible from monprice.com.

 

[tmbrown97]

First off, I don't disagree with running Cat6 - but I just want to put this out there anyway because of the misconceptions out... As of today, there is nothing you'd use in a residential market that would call for Cat6 - and likely won't be in the next 10 years. Current developments look like there'll probably never be a huge difference in capability of Cat5 vs. 6 - and will quite possibly jump to Cat7 or 8 or whatever for the next big thing, like 10gb over copper over long distances. Cat 5 (even Cat5, not the enhanced) is perfectly capable of running gigabit. It is kinda nice having the larger gauge wires though when running power over them though.

Conduit is great for getting through walls and between floors - but there's no reason to stay in conduit once you're in the attic; its main point is keep an open path where you otherwise might not have one.

And - Cat6 is not suitable for amplified audio of any sort - but it can handle non-amplified line-level quite well. I've done some pretty tricky things with it in the past.

For your questions:
1. Solid
2. CMR. Don't use CMX - it's cheaper wire and not good to work with. Plenum isn't needed in a typical residential situation because, as you noted, it won't be going through an air handler.
3. The mix-match thing is a myth IMO, and a way to use fine print to get out of the warranty - As long as you're using quality parts, they'll be just fine. The gauge of the wire is pretty standard, and that's what the connectors are meant for. Just use quality brands and you'll be fine. For residential, I use leviton jacks and patch panels and whatever brand jacks the local disto carries; and the reputable brand of cable.
4. No - use Cat6 connectors and jacks. The gauge of Cat6 is larger. That said, I've done it plenty of times when I've had to, but you're really not supposed to.
5. Depending on your termination method, you probably don't need a crimper. One end will be a keystone jack - at the other end it'll either punch down on a residential patch panel, or you can skip that if you want and put a RJ45 jack on that end. Most people don't like doing RJ45 ends, but if you're terminating in a structured media can, they're not all bad. You mentioned a server room though, which indicates you may have room for a rack - in that scenario you'll likely end up with a patch panel, so you'll need a trusty 110 punch down tool and not a crimper. Buy off-the-shelf patch cables from monoprice instead of making them for connections from the patch panel to the switch/router.

That said - a good crimper is worth its weight in gold. I've used the ones you buy from radio shack or the cheapos from Fry's - and they don't often apply even pressure across all the pins - and they require you to do all the work. If you plan on doing many, spend the $60 on a good tool. I use one like this and I don't think it's ever given me a bad crimp - it's been awesome over the last 8 years or so. The ratcheting leverage action ensures a very tight crimp. Same with your punchdown - something like this should be good.

 

[pete_c]

In addition I have always done an end to end test of continuity with a cable tester. I installed cat5e here maybe 7 years ago and currently running mostly Gb on the network these days and it works fine. I'm also utilizing cat5e for RS-232 extending and music controls (Russound). Works fine. I've purchased in bulk whenever possible and went to different colors depending on some assumptions of what I was going to utilize the cable for.

Its whatever you feel more comfortable with.

My preference here has always been punch panel to keystone jack. Both sides are typically color coded and are a bit faster than crimping an RJ-45. You can purchase short cat5E cables today pretty much of any length with ends on them. I do a mix and still prefer to make my own custom cables today for home use.

Relating to crimping RJ-45 ends: (I have purchased and made my own cables depending on the application). This is just the way I do it; not really totally sure on the documented methodology; but it works for me.

Purchase a cat5e wire round cable UTP stripper if you want to make up some patch cables. To make a RJ-45 patch cable: Strip away maybe 1.5", cut off the threads, separate the 4 pairs of wires individually accordingly, bend them side to side and flat to get them nice and even, While hold the wires flat; utilize your combo crimping tool to cut all of the cables in a straight line maybe .5" from the jacket. While still holding the end and keeping the wires all flat slip the 8 wires into the RJ-45 jack; push the cable into the RJ-45 jack until you see them all lined up evenly against the end of the uncrimped Rf-45 jack. The sleeve of the cable will have passed inside of the RJ-45 jack. Crimp it and do the other side; then test it. If it doesn't test out trying another. Many folks prefer to purchase the hooded ended patch cables. I find them a bit harder to work with and prefer the open ones. The tabs do break on these sometimes; prices though are cheap.

 

[Mr Spock]

Forgot to mention I'll probably have two Ethernet networks in the house: 1GB (media and general Ethernet) and 100MB POE (cameras, touchscreens, etc.). Since I'll also use the Cat6 for some low voltage low current applications the slightly thicker wire of Cat6 should be a bit better. I also think the plastic cross that separates the twisted pairs in Cat6 will help with avoiding coupling of pairs for some of my non-Ethernet applications like the line level audio. I totally hear you on the ability of Cat5 to do 1GB. But since the cost of Cat6 is only about 28% more than Cat5e, hey why not.

Regarding mixing of Cat5 and Cat6 cables/connectors/crimpers...

My previous experience was using HoldKey brand Cat6 CMR cable with Ideal brand Cat5e RJ45 connectors crimped with a KS Modern brand crimper (as seen here http://www.amazon.com/KSMODERN-Networking-Crimper-Crimping-Stripper/dp/B005KMHZDI). It looks like a heavy duty crimper, but it's not ratcheting as you mentioned. I'm guessing that was my problem. I'll invest in the Paladin 1300 you recommended.

So to be clear, there is no difference in a Cat5 crimper vs. a Cat6 crimper? A know-it-all friend told me there was. A goggle search shows people talking about it but no definitive answers.

Thanks guys.

 

[tmbrown97]

These crimpers are 8P8C - meaning 8 Positions 8 Contact. They have no specification that changes for Cat 5, Cat 6, Cat 3 flat 8-pin Telco, etc. Plain & simple, they have the ability to push down 8 conductors. Doing it right takes a large amount of force. I can get the $5 ones from radio shack to give a good crimp, but when I do it's my own hands doing all the crimping and I'm squeezing as hard as I can. With that one I use, I know that once it releases, it's a hard crimp because it leverages it and creates more force - and doesn't let me back off too soon because of the ratcheting action. It's literally never failed me, I don't think - and I've even abused it a little bit.

Also - it's easy to get the wrong connectors - you want the right spec (cat 5 or 6 for the right gauge) and ones meant for solid wire.

 

[Del91574]

Sorry if this question has been asked before...

Not clear to me what kind of Cat6 cable to specify for a new home construction. Will run miles of this stuff for everything from a 1Gig network to IR blasters to Nuvo audio control panels to even some line level audio (this one might be a bit chancy). For future proofing I'm not even going to bother with Cat5.

There are a lot of types to pick from. Don't think I need the plenum rated stuff (CMP) as none will be routed in ducting. The wiring from the server room will be in conduit to the attic where it distributes out. But once its in the attic from there it might get non-conduited to each end point (riser?). Not sure how that part will play out.

Questions:
1) Stranded vs. solid?
2) CM, CMR, and CMG? Which is necessary?
3) I've read about possibly not wanting to mix and match cable brands with other manufacturers connectors. True?
4) Can you use Cat 5e connectors with Cat 6 wire?
5) What about crimp tools? I have a CAT5 crimp tool that I once tried to use on CAT6 cable with horrible results. I never could get all 8 wires to connect.

Thanks.

P.S planning on getting as much as possible from monprice.com.

Here's a trade view, as I deal with this on a daily basis with enterprise grade networks and security, specifically in a bunch of world renowned healthcare facilities as well as research facilities....not bragging, but it's the fact.

1. All horizontal and backbone cabling needs to be solid. Stranded is only used as a whip or short patch from permanent wiring.

2. CMG or CMR are both acceptable in a residence. You do not need a riser cable in a residence...I forget what the "story" rating is, I want to say 3 offhand, but I'd need to look up the reference, as we typically use riser cable. Plenum cabling is not intended on running within ductwork, many people misinterpret what a plenum is and when plenum cabling is required. Normal cabling can't be run through supply ductwork or similar without paying attention to special wiring methods. Plenum cabling is only required when the airspace, typically a drop ceiling, is used for return (or enviromental make-up) air, not a supply.

3.Cable and connector mismatching is a myth. As long as a quality manufacturer's components are used, I've yet to see a foul.

4.The facts with various connectors and cabling is this, contrary to most people's ideas: Most popular category connectors will work with any category cable, as the typical cables only range between 22 and 26 AWG, which isn't that great a dimentional range when working with IDC connectors. Cat 5 ends will work on Cat 6 cables and vice versa, it's only a matter of the skill of the person making the ends and the tooling/connectors being used. The problem lies, however, when Cat 6 cabling is terminated using Cat 5 hardware, as the rating of the installation will only test at the Cat 5 spec, no matter how well the field cabiling was done and integrity at the ends were maintained.

5. The understanding of a ratcheting crimp tool is off here....they're only used to verify a full "crimp cycle" is completed, not the integrity of the crimp, as the dies are typically the limiting factor, in addition to the jack itself. Open barrel pins and sockets, yes, a ratchet crimper does make a difference, but only to adjust the amount of crimp and prevent overcrimping the pin/socket on the cable. Actually, I've experienced worse performance with a lot of ratchet crimpers based on the design of the die, crimping side to side instead of straight up/down. The easiest manufacturer to locate a quality crimper would be Ideal. We use GMP, as they're the only crimpers accepted by ATT and Quest, among others, for the crimp integrity, however I doubt most would spend upwards of $2-300 for a modular plug presser, with used going for 1/3 that price typically. I've had exceptionally poor results with Paladin as far as ratchet crimpers and the quality of the crimp (as mentioned above for an example).

The truth is Cat 6 has improved speeds over C5 and C5E, however most typical networks don't see a difference between C5E and C6 unless they're doing heavy imaging (such as medical equipment) compared to typical file transfer. Most IT folk specify C6, when even their switches, routers, and even computer NIC's can't even support the spec, because they have a number or idea that it is "better".

The best advise I would offer someone regarding a network, especially wanting to future proof, would be to spend the money up front for a composite cable that contains fiber. Use the UTP cables in it now and then migrate to fiber if the UTP is outgrown. The real way to plan your network and install would be to approach it as an enterprise network and if you're going to be running multiple applications and hardware on the network, separate the network into VLAN's and assign them to their own VLAN rather than slam everything on the same network, you'll get better results.

 

[tmbrown97]

David - I'd love to know your real perspective on this... are you DELInstallations - a small security guy, or is that a hobby, and you're a wire monkey for someone larger? What do you really do? Based on your comment about what ATT and Quest specify, it sounds like DELInstallations is a hobby and you're just one player in a larger organization. I don't think you're completely truthful about who you are - and whenever people ask you to back up your experience, you go silent.

I too deal in enterprise networks - I've personally designed and built them... and I don't just mean being hired to do one part - I've spec'd them, built them, built the server racks, built the blade systems and the storage systems, etc - end to end.

The point of #2 was to get the right cable that's easy to work with without nicking the cable because of crappy quality; and not to spend money on Plenum - which has a special coating to reduce the amount of toxic smoke that enters into the air supply should it burn.

#4 - while technically OK, and I'd do it myself, it's bad advice to give a newbie... Cat6 ends are a little roomier than Cat5 ends - making room for the extra gauge. Cat6 ends into Cat5 are kinda tight; and Cat5 ends into Cat6 have a little wiggle room. Of course an experienced person can make either work.

#5 - funny - the one I actually carry is the IDEAL that looks extremely similar to what I posted - I just haven't been finding them as easily online lately to post links to - but the idea is to find one that does press all the contact down in an even fashion with sufficient force. I do prefer the type where the pressure is even, so out the front - rather than clamping from one side to the other.

People have been suggesting running fiber for years - and lots of future-proofers have done it - and that fiber sits unused, as it likely will for the rest of our lives. Other technologies are improving faster than fiber does; and the equipment on either end of fiber is too expensive. If you wan to future proof, don't waste your money on fiber - spend it on making sure you can replace that wire someday or add more if possible; ie w/conduit or pathways.

Also VLAN's are too complex for many people - though they're getting more affordable and simpler now that even some of the lower end netgear equipment supports it - but for many it's easier to just run two switches and keep video and dvr separate for example. That said, I run VLAN's in my own house - because it's how I separate a single jack in each room (as the house was built) to support multiple networks, including dedicated VPN's into work for VOIP, etc.

 

[pete_c]

The point of #2 was to get the right cable that's easy to work with without nicking the cable because of crappy quality; and not to spend money on Plenum - which has a special coating to reduce the amount of toxic smoke that enters into the air supply should it burn

I learned mostly in the 1990's with implementations / managing projects / for newly implemented banks. I was asked and did inspect both end's of every punchdown from the patch panel to looking at spreadsheet printouts of the validation. It did get a bit tedious with say 200 workstations in a small bank. (way different though than 1000's of workstations in much larger environments in the 2000's).
Having done that if or when I had an issue; I would expect the vendor to correct said issue within a specfied time and would actually utilize final payment of said labor as a bargaining tool. (In addition to banks involved with the automotive industry doing similiar kinds of "stuff").

People have been suggesting running fiber for years - and lots of future-proofers have done it - and that fiber sits unused, as it likely will for the rest of our lives. Other technologies are improving faster than fiber does; and the equipment on either end of fiber is too expensive. If you wan to future proof, don't waste your money on fiber - spend it on making sure you can replace that wire someday or add more if possible; ie w/conduit or pathways.

For a time in the 2000's we utilized "blown" fiber at the airports for the backbone infrastructure connections. It was kind of neat the way it worked. We never had enough fiber. I agree though today for a residential set up you really don't need fiber. I do remember having "panic" attacks misplacing the Cisco Switch fiber cards sometimes and eventually keeping them in a locked drawer in my desk for said times that I would have these panic "attacks". That said in the 2000's when say backbone connectivity went to the extreme Gb speed ends then fiber was a benefit; specifically cross campus (airport) stuff.

For a while at home I was using fiber for my audio and I still do today and now though its just mixed with digital coax for sound. I do see that the future digital home transport will probably necessate speeds into the 40-50Gb range for this or that stuff.

Also VLAN's are too complex for many people - though they're getting more affordable and simpler now that even some of the lower end netgear equipment supports it - but for many it's easier to just run two switches and keep video and dvr separate for example. That said, I run VLAN's in my own house - because it's how I separate a single jack in each room (as the house was built) to support multiple networks, including dedicated VPN's into work for VOIP, etc.

I have witnessed an entire airport (ORD) be taken down because of a misconfigured VLAN. Lots of finger pointing and never really a solid reason why it happened. That said I have also seen VLANs misused. I mean the backplane of a switch is supposed to most of the time handle this and that; but you can push even a Cisco 6000 series switch to its limits depending only on VLANs which really isn't that good. I believe the same regarding the home and the "need" for VLAN implementation in a residential environment.

BTW Mr. Spock; I've migrated all of my Homeseer Touchscreens now to Gb; mostly because I could; but have been playing with multiple view, multiple security video stuff and it does help a bit as Homeseer HSTouch / HS Speaker is a bit network chatty; then adding streaming video to a touchscreen adds a bit to the transport. Not saying that 100Mb doesn't work. It does just fine. But if the wire can carry Gb then why not?

For video analogue cameras I have started to utilize more of the Cat5 with balun's carrying both video and power over the old RG6 with power cables; mostly cuz I do not see much of a difference and it's way easier to play with than the RG6. On the IP Camera side; my ultimate do all IP Camera is still in the $300-$1000 USD range and a bit out of my price range for say 15 cameras (for the house). The newest higher end analogue cameras have improved much these last few years with better electronics and optics for less than $200 USD. I do have 5 different "el cheapo" IP cameras in place today. I can lock up one PT camera by telling it to do things very quickly via ssh or brower interface.

 

[tmbrown97]

No disagreement that fiber is a necessity where you're exceeding the lengths allowed for copper; but that seems to be the only time it's favored really; and that makes it a bit irrelevant for residential use (unless you have a huge house - and even then it'll likely be for backbone as everything goes IP).

 

[Del91574]

Work, I'm not a wire monkey by any stretch, but I own my own company and partner in another much larger entity. I am on the front lines daily configuring and maintaining our sites as well. I have no need to drag the commercial end into this discussion, however, as I offered to another poster in an unrelated topic, I offer a pair of cut-resistant gloves, safety glasses and a hard hat, provided you have your own steel toes and invite you to any of the sites I am on.

I run DEL as the residential and structured side and the commercial side which I am partner of, deal with much larger projects, of which include:
Health Care Facilities
Pharmaceutical Complexes
Industrial Facilities
Universities
Office Buildings
Specialty Building Systems
Cogeneration
Energy Conservation
Medical Office Buildings
Corporate Headquarters
Commercial Structures
Performing Arts Institutes
Educational
Telecommunication/Data Center,
Manufacturing Facilities

As I stated prior, people put too much effort specifying a Category number, without maintaining the entire standard in their whole network. Very few networks run close to a Cat 6, 6A or 6E standard across the entire topology or past the components and backbone.

I have multiple residences using fiber for network and other purposes, and simply not for a backbone. We tend to prefer it many times in residential when dealing with multiple buildings, simply for additional transient protection.

 

[tmbrown97]

DEL - I'll just be blunt here... There are definitely times you offer valuable advice that I respect - I've even tried getting your suggestions once or twice on areas I suspect you'd have more experience in (we all have our areas of expertise). But - the arrogance in your posts is very off-putting to many people here. Many times your posts also offer no value whatsoever, as they're not adding anything new or relevant, or they're talking about what would be put into a paid hands-off installation vs. a DIY hobby system.

I don't know if you'll ever figure this out - I suspect this is just who you are, and suspect you're even worse in person. That said, try humbling yourself a little bit, and before you post a bunch of criticisms, maybe ask yourself if your post actually adds anything to the bottom line.

There are a lot of people on this board with very valuable knowledge and experience - but when there's one arrogant a** who comes into the room putting everyone down, it makes others not want to even participate - detracting from the overall content of the site. I for one don't feel like arguing; I just try to offer my perspective in the interest of helping others - and I have an inordinate amount of experience compared to others when it comes to networking, telecom, cabling, etc; and have a pretty solid understanding of any of the automation systems I've worked with first hand.

 

[treo650]

Agree to disagree, Gents.

Happy New year to All!

 

[pete_c]

Historically over the years on the commercial side I've seen base standards stay similiar yet change with methodologies and mechanisms of transport along with pricing said endeavors; expecially when new and training was involved. By the time we came to the late 2000's wiring basics and network base topologies did change much. Much of the high cost endeavors became more related to simple communications relative to what would be implemented, when and how much.

In the middle 2000's I would update and keep putting addendums to base "wiring" standards documentation which actually started in the 1990's. It was difficult to keep up with. It was also an evolution which would be based on a tried and true methodologies.

Take public sector implementations. Many endeavors take years for approvals; yet implemenations are antiquated and even more costly than originally proposed; following 4-5 year year old technologies. On a contrary look I was involved in a whole city networking topology created for the City of Las Vegas; state of the art at the time; it was not an issue of money but rather one of technology at the time with an endless money bucket.

Time is money; and basically then it doesn't matter as long as the end result works. A revisit or service contract has always been part of the package.

So if some endeavor is amended due to some antiquated but tried and true methodology and it creates a "gold mine" of monies to said vendors and none for the wiser (or ignorance) of said purchaser of topologies.

Just a few years ago; I had a relatively small project related to a gas and oil company. It was basically a resize of a server room. The basic concern was cooling. I had the opportunity to visit and analyse 4 ongoing similiar endeavors at Fermi labs prior to my costing and implementation efforts. It was interesting because all 4 were using different methodologies which were tried and true yet unique; each one costing a bit differently and each one technologically different than the other. Mostly I think though the end result was which one would require the least amount of maintanance relating to the hands on, energy use etc. What I implemented specifically was mostly one methodology that required the most "baggage"; probably the most costly and inefficient methodology; and mostly because of antiquated thoughts of older technologies versus newer technologies and related to support of said technologies.

Yes; wisdom is gained over a period of time; the more implementations done; but what I've seen over the years is that the object or goal has been faster; cheaper and more long term maintainance which can be counterintuitive producing results that are only "good" for less time; but an infrastructure with could be updated at a cost over a short period of time; which is really none other than job security. The skill in the "sell" is what generates the most amount of money; which is an art in itself.

I agree with the posters relating to the methodolgy of the push stating best or most implemented and reasons of said methodologies; but I also envy the gain of knowledge based on multiple endeavors over a period of time. It does become ingrained because it makes money and generates future work; cookie cutter of sorts.

 

[Del91574]

Work,
Whatever makes you feel better, even when it comes down to open flaming, name calling and attacks with little merit, so be it.

I offered for you to come out to see a few integration projects, both residential and commercial, even some of the health care side, of which, I doubt many pros, let alone hobbyists get to see in their experience, and actually see all the equipment installed and running, not on a webpage or catalog somewhere.

I forget if you mentioned if you're a hobbyist or in the industry, I think you said you tinker with automation and integration, but forgive me if I'm wrong. Irregardless, I've got no problem bringing yourself or even anyone else that wants to see what I do and work with on a daily basis, I've got nothing to prove nor hide within my trade and industry, with the only exception being the work I did for ACS and IDS on federal SCIF's.

 

[wuench]

I agree with DEL,

Unfortunately, for those that have installed it, it is looking like Cat6 is becoming an orphaned wiring standard like Cat5. It doesn't provide any additional benefit over Cat5e for networking and isn't going to live up to a standard for 10g copper because the industry isn't going to settle for the shorter distances. So there really is no advantage to installing it, especially in a residential network unless you need it for a niche application like running HDMI video over Catx.

Cat6a (or maybe a future draft) is going to be necessary for 10g over copper and is likely to become the standard everyone starts to move to, but there really isn't enough support in the industry for it yet, so parts are hard to find. It'll probably take 3-5years before we know for sure, companies aren't willing to invest in rewiring their data centers until they are confident in it being a long-lived standard unless they have an immediate need. Most are moving to fiber for 10G when necessary.