Wiring Question - NEWBIE

[dsabot]

Hi all. I just moved into a house that has a previously installed alarm system. There is some hard-wiring and some older ITI wireless sensors. I am upgrading to a ELK M1 GOLD system as I like the home automation aspect as well as the compativility with the wireless sensors. Here is my question:

In my masterbedroom I took the keypad off the wall. It has 4 wires running to the back of the keypad. As I pulled these wires out of the wall there are about 5 bundles of wires that are labeled things like (left window, right window, sliding door, etc.) It looks like they wired the door sensors to the control pad. I have asked around and learned that this was an old way of doing things, at least that is what I was told.

I am trying to figure out what I might need to make all this work with the M1GOLD. I was told that I could use a 16 zone input expander
http://www.smarthome.com/12835.html and a data hub http://www.smarthome.com/12832.html. Is this the right course of action? Any advice?

Also, how can I tell if my ITI sensors are crystal?

 

[Digger]

Hi all. I just moved into a house that has a previously installed alarm system. There is some hard-wiring and some older ITI wireless sensors. I am upgrading to a ELK M1 GOLD system as I like the home automation aspect as well as the compativility with the wireless sensors. Here is my question:

In my masterbedroom I took the keypad off the wall. It has 4 wires running to the back of the keypad. As I pulled these wires out of the wall there are about 5 bundles of wires that are labeled things like (left window, right window, sliding door, etc.) It looks like they wired the door sensors to the control pad. I have asked around and learned that this was an old way of doing things, at least that is what I was told.

I am trying to figure out what I might need to make all this work with the M1GOLD. I was told that I could use a 16 zone input expander
http://www.smarthome.com/12835.html and a data hub http://www.smarthome.com/12832.html. Is this the right course of action? Any advice?

Also, how can I tell if my ITI sensors are crystal?

It sounds like the keypad had a built in zone expander??? I know a few manufacturers do that but I am not that familiar with the GE line to know if they have that on some models.

Do you have a place you can mount the zone expander nearby where the wires will reach (a closet etc). Also consider the ELK Retrofit hub as well.

 

[dsabot]

Hi all. I just moved into a house that has a previously installed alarm system. There is some hard-wiring and some older ITI wireless sensors. I am upgrading to a ELK M1 GOLD system as I like the home automation aspect as well as the compativility with the wireless sensors. Here is my question:

In my masterbedroom I took the keypad off the wall. It has 4 wires running to the back of the keypad. As I pulled these wires out of the wall there are about 5 bundles of wires that are labeled things like (left window, right window, sliding door, etc.) It looks like they wired the door sensors to the control pad. I have asked around and learned that this was an old way of doing things, at least that is what I was told.

I am trying to figure out what I might need to make all this work with the M1GOLD. I was told that I could use a 16 zone input expander
http://www.smarthome.com/12835.html and a data hub http://www.smarthome.com/12832.html. Is this the right course of action? Any advice?

Also, how can I tell if my ITI sensors are crystal?

It sounds like the keypad had a built in zone expander??? I know a few manufacturers do that but I am not that familiar with the GE line to know if they have that on some models.

Do you have a place you can mount the zone expander nearby where the wires will reach (a closet etc). Also consider the ELK Retrofit hub as well.

I have a nearby closet and attic access, so I don't think that will be a problem. I guess my main question is what product(s) do I need to use. I assume I need to re-route the window sensor wires into the closet area and connect them to a HUB or a Zone Expander (not sure which), then run the keypad homerun to the Hub or Expander?

 

[alarmguy]

Hi & Welcome

This also may be a junction point for zone wiring. If there are only 4 wires going to the keypad like (red-black-green- yellow or white), and all the other wires are going in the direction of the control, this could be possible. A clear picture of the back of the keypad and the bundle of wires would help. Also the model # of keypad & control will help.

 

[dsabot]

Hi & Welcome

This also may be a junction point for zone wiring. If there are only 4 wires going to the keypad like (red-black-green- yellow or white), and all the other wires are going in the direction of the control, this could be possible. A clear picture of the back of the keypad and the bundle of wires would help. Also the model # of keypad & control will help.

Ok, I unraveled the wire bundle and this is what I found. The homerun from the main control unit to the keypad in the MBR has 4 wires attached. Then there are 4 sensor wires that are just taped to the homerun. they all teminate with a white cap labeled dolphin. So they don't actually attach to the keypad, they are just wrapped on the same wire. I have no idea what this is.

 

[alarmguy]

Well

It does sound like you have a junction point, where some zones and the keypad meet & go back to the control. If this being the point you should be able to wire up an ELK M1Gold. You will have to trace the existing wiring, finding which zone goes where but it should work. If there is a zone chart from the old system that should help.

 

[dsabot]

Well

It does sound like you have a junction point, where some zones and the keypad meet & go back to the control. If this being the point you should be able to wire up an ELK M1Gold. You will have to trace the existing wiring, finding which zone goes where but it should work. If there is a zone chart from the old system that should help.

I do not have a zone chart, that would be helpful though. But what I don't understand is this wiring. Shouldn't the wiring go from the window contact to a hub or control panel? These wires looks like they are being terminated in the wall with B-connectors, they don't actally attach to the keypad at all.

 

[me2]

I found this http://www.elkproducts.com/pdf/M1XRF%20Wir...%20Receiver.pdf while trying to figure out what crystal transmitters were. See page 8. It lists the GE sensors.

 

[eufreka]

Well

It does sound like you have a junction point, where some zones and the keypad meet & go back to the control. If this being the point you should be able to wire up an ELK M1Gold. You will have to trace the existing wiring, finding which zone goes where but it should work. If there is a zone chart from the old system that should help.

I do not have a zone chart, that would be helpful though. But what I don't understand is this wiring. Shouldn't the wiring go from the window contact to a hub or control panel? These wires looks like they are being terminated in the wall with B-connectors, they don't actally attach to the keypad at all.

Well, what control do you have now? (What is the keypad attached to? And you mentioned earlier that the door contacts are still wired to the "control pad", did you mean "keypad"? Is there a wireless receiver for the wireless contacts?)

Does the current system arm/disarm? How many "zones" does it have now? Is it possible that the *original* system was hardwired and terminated at the keypad location; but was later replaced with the combo wireless setup you have now? Or were the various contact wires re-routed?

Heck, is your keypad the "controller"...Are there other keypads in the house? (What's behind them?)

Maybe it is time to mention the brand/part numbers on the equipment you do see?

 

[rrockoff]

Hi David,

I just installed an ELK M1G in my new home. It is a great system. I have a few questions to ask before I can attempt to help you.

1. How many total zones will you have?

2. Will you be mounting the alarm panel in the closet next to the keypad or will it be going somewhere else. Depending on the answer to question #1, you may be able to save yourself some money.

3. Do you have a fox and hound? I found it to be quite helpful to trace wires.

Best Regards,

Rod

 

[dsabot]

Well

It does sound like you have a junction point, where some zones and the keypad meet & go back to the control. If this being the point you should be able to wire up an ELK M1Gold. You will have to trace the existing wiring, finding which zone goes where but it should work. If there is a zone chart from the old system that should help.

I do not have a zone chart, that would be helpful though. But what I don't understand is this wiring. Shouldn't the wiring go from the window contact to a hub or control panel? These wires looks like they are being terminated in the wall with B-connectors, they don't actally attach to the keypad at all.

Well, what control do you have now? (What is the keypad attached to? And you mentioned earlier that the door contacts are still wired to the "control pad", did you mean "keypad"? Is there a wireless receiver for the wireless contacts?)

Does the current system arm/disarm? How many "zones" does it have now? Is it possible that the *original* system was hardwired and terminated at the keypad location; but was later replaced with the combo wireless setup you have now? Or were the various contact wires re-routed?

Heck, is your keypad the "controller"...Are there other keypads in the house? (What's behind them?)

Maybe it is time to mention the brand/part numbers on the equipment you do see?

I do apologize, I am a newbie so I REALLY appreciate you bearing with me as I learn the terminology. I will try to explain more, and try to take some pics as well.

IN the laundry room I have a ITI CARETAKER PLUS, which I believe is the wireless receiver. to that there is something called a Silent Knight, which I believe has something to do with the telephone, and a small wiring harness that has the hardwired zones attached to it, I call this area the Main Control Unit. From the MCU there are 3 keypads in the house. So far I took the keypad in the master bedroom out of the wall and attached to it are 4 wires, RED, GREEN, BLACK and WHITE. I believe this wire just runs straight to the MCU in the laundry room. Taped to this wire are 5 wires that have dolphin b-connectors (hope I am using this term correctly). They are just taped to the homerun wire, they are not in any way connected to the keypad. I believe each of these wires goes to different window contacts, as they are labeled on the wire (master bathroom left window, masterbathroom right window, etc.)

The rest of the house pretty much has wireless motion and glass break sensors, which hook into the CARETAKER PLUS. All the windows have hard wired contacts which I believe hook into the wiring harness near the Caretaker. I was going to purchase a tone generater to see if I correct with my wiring assumption. Beyond that, I have no idea how many zones are wired or anything else. This sytem might have worked when the house was purchased but we did so much remodeling that it has been over a year. So I wanted to try and use what is there with an Elk System. Again I can take some pics if that will help. And thanks!

 

[eufreka]

a ITI CARETAKER PLUS

a Silent Knight

Don't know if you have them so, here are a couple links...

scroll down for the caretaker plus user guide...
http://www.nationalsecuritysystems.net/support/support.html

fire alarms...see if you can identify your device?
http://www.silentknight.com/

Is the caretaker "dead"...as in, cannot arm, or something else? (Don't know codes, etc.)

 

[dsabot]

a ITI CARETAKER PLUS

a Silent Knight

Don't know if you have them so, here are a couple links...

scroll down for the caretaker plus user guide...
http://www.nationalsecuritysystems.net/support/support.html

fire alarms...see if you can identify your device?
http://www.silentknight.com/

Is the caretaker "dead"...as in, cannot arm, or something else? (Don't know codes, etc.)

Here is some new information:

1) The Silent Knight is model 7150, which is a Telephone Line Monitor. It is checking to see if the phone wire is cut, which sends a signal to the panel
2) I found a card with the zones printed on it. The house has 32 zones. Of those, it looks like 8 zones are hardwired door/window contacts. The other zones are all wireless
3) The caretaker system might work, but since I don't have any of the reset codes, etc I can't get it to work
4) Coming into the bedroom is a cat5 wire with 4 of the wires going to the keypad, and the other wires spliced to window contacts. This cat5 wire runs all the way back to the main control unit in the laundry room where the contact wires are spliced into the control panel. It looks like they just piggybacked on the cat5 wiring instead of running homeruns for each wire. This is my latest discovery after I pulled even more wire out of the wall

So I guess my question is this. If I disconnect the window contacts that are on the cat5 wire, should I wire them to a ELK hub that I put in the closet or attic or should I just leave this wiring alone and hook the elk keypad up to the 4 exposed wires on the cat5 homerun?