Workshop/Garage Security

[heitjer]

[background=rgb(231, 234, 239)]Here is the setting:[/background]

• Metal Garage Building (40x44x16), three bays, one bay is framed in for workshop, restroom & kitchen ( I wanted to post picture but I am not allowed)
• Rural area, dirt road, off normal path
• Openings: 3 Roll Up Doors, 2 Man Doors, 4 Windows
• Available: Power, Water
• Connection: HS Internet available in the future - its a matter of ordering it, don't like to get phone land line if I can avoid this, good cell phone reception
• 3 Neighbors in shouting distance (~400 ft)

[background=rgb(231, 234, 239)]I am done with the inside framing and I am currently running all electrical lines and have good access to everything. So a wired system is 'ok'. Two neighbors are always around and one of them has a key to the building. So I think a security system that is "loud, deterrent and possibly scary" along with an option to notify me would be OK. A perimeter surveillance around the building would be nice too. [/background]

[background=rgb(231, 234, 239)]We are probably one/two year(s) away from starting our house out there and we are concerned about our stored stuff. It would be nice to have a system that can tie in later the house but that is not the highest priority, after building all this I am a bit cost concerned now. [/background]

[background=rgb(231, 234, 239)]So, I am reading this forum and I am not getting anywhere. I have been down a lot of recommendations but nothing seems to fit really my situation. [/background]

[background=rgb(240, 244, 247)]Given above setting - how about this setup:[/background]

• [background=rgb(240, 244, 247)]PPRO211GSM - Visonic Power Max Pro Kit with Built-in GSM[/background]

[background=rgb(240, 244, 247)]combined with [/background]

• [background=rgb(240, 244, 247)]PLINK2 - Visonic Powerlink Module[/background]

[background=rgb(240, 244, 247)]I read that this Kit has the ability to use two hard wire detectors. I have already hard wired two doors (BR-1021) and four windows (BR-1012DM). I guess this is not possible to tie in?[/background]

[background=rgb(231, 234, 239)]I like to ask you to give me some specific pointers for this situation.[/background]

 

[tmbrown97]

Hi heitjer,

I'm sorry you haven't yet found the information you're looking for - there's certainly a wealth of information available here.

I'm not sure I'd go with the alarm units you listed above for a couple reasons;

1. There's no reason in the world to go with a wireless system if you're building from the ground up; wired is so much better, and 1/10th the cost.
   
2. In the past you said you wanted to get into Automation down the road; this isn't the way to get there... it's a standalone security system.
   
3. There are a lot of good reasons to go with a single system that's partitioned into areas down the road. The Elk or HAI are automatic choices for this and are the favorites around here, but there are plenty of other systems that can do it as well (DSC and others). It'll save you money on monitoring and allow more flexibility for automation and a better synergy between both buildings on your property.

If I were in your shoes today, knowing what I know, I'd start with an Elk M1G without a second thought - I'd install it in the workshop with the siren outside (real siren, not outdoor speaker), a keypad inside, and all your wired zones directly to the panel. When the house is built, I would add sufficient conduit between the house and workshop to run some Cat5, possibly some fiber, and anything else that seems appropriate at the time. That would allow you to connect internet, phone, and a databus run for the Elk M1G.

At that time, I would buy an M1XIN Input Expander and M1XOVR Output expander and put that in the workshop in place of the Elk. Run the input and output zones to that (speakers, etc). Also get a separate power-supply to handle this area. You'd be able to leave keypads as well. Then I would reprogram it so the workshop is Area 2 and define the zones and keypads as such, and make the house Area 1 and direct-wire everything to the alarm's new home in the wiring closet.

Having this level of integration makes your possibilities limitless, and you'll only ever get one chance to do it right.... given the cost of building these spaces, a few hundred extra bucks is a drop in the bucket and I wouldn't think twice about it.

Lastly - those look to be standard contact sensors - any normal security system should be able to use them as-is.

 

[jpmargis]

:hesaid:

Right on, brother!

 

[heitjer]

Thank you so much for your fast reply! That's a system I had looked at a few month back, its on the higher dollar side. Security Store has 20% off on this but still....


1x ELK-M1GSYS4

1x ELK-M1XEP


1 x SD30W Siren


2 x PS-434A - Skylink Motion Detector


2 x Visonic GlassTech Acoustic Glassbreak


This is approx $900 bucks. I have a glass break, a heat, a carbon monoxide, an indoor speaker, and a heat sensor left over from my old Brinks system. Could I use some of that?

 

[jpmargis]

I have a glass break, a heat, a carbon monoxide, an indoor speaker, and a heat sensor left over from my old Brinks system. Could I use some of that?

Very likely the answer is "Yes" for all, but a make and model are required to confirm.

 

[tmbrown97]

I'm sure what you're building is costing hundreds of thousands of dollars before it's all said and done - a difference in a few hundred bucks for a world of functionality shouldn't be the end of the world. Also, when you get closer, call up automatedoutlet.com and tell them you're a cocooner and you want to make a system purchase and see what they can do to help you out.

As for those existing parts, as jpmargis said, quite likely - most security components past the system boards (sirens, motions, glass-breaks) are basic devices that are interchangeable unless they're from a proprietary system.

 

[Del91574]

Irregardless of the above posts, in direct response to the OP...metal buildings/siding/etc. and RF systems don't mix reliably.

 

[kurtmccaslin]

Coincidentally I am planning to move into a metal barn while I build my automated dream house. I have been pondering the same issue. Construction is still a year away but I will need a lot of advice when I get closer. Your responses to this question have been very helpful!

 

[drvnbysound]

I'm sure what you're building is costing hundreds of thousands of dollars before it's all said and done - a difference in a few hundred bucks for a world of functionality shouldn't be the end of the world. Also, when you get closer, call up automatedoutlet.com and tell them you're a cocooner and you want to make a system purchase and see what they can do to help you out.

As for those existing parts, as jpmargis said, quite likely - most security components past the system boards (sirens, motions, glass-breaks) are basic devices that are interchangeable unless they're from a proprietary system.

It really doesn't add much value to the thread, but I wanted to comment on the bolded part above. I, obviously have no idea how much the OP is spending on his workshop, but I helped my father build a 24'x36', 3-car garage (along with 2 windows and an exterior door) a few years back and it was in the $10k ballpark. The OPs is certainly bigger, but I don't think it would add 90k to the cost of the workshop... then again my father's wasn't fully metal either. :unsure:

 

[tmbrown97]

You're right - I have NO idea how much he's spending, but he said he's building the workshop, then the house - so I was counting all of it ^_^

Plus he's talking a significant structure with plumbing and electrical for bathrooms, kitchen; will need a sizable foundation, etc - doesn't sound like an inexpensive project to me. If it is, let me know what state I need to move to! I spent more than $10K pouring a concrete patio smaller than his workshop foundation will be just last summer.

 

[drvnbysound]

You're right - I have NO idea how much he's spending, but he said he's building the workshop, then the house - so I was counting all of it ^_^

Plus he's talking a significant structure with plumbing and electrical for bathrooms, kitchen; will need a sizable foundation, etc - doesn't sound like an inexpensive project to me. If it is, let me know what state I need to move to! I spent more than $10K pouring a concrete patio smaller than his workshop foundation will be just last summer.

Ah, I missed the house part...

I am 99% sure that my fathers 24x36 slab was around $3k I just looked through the pictures I have and didn't find any fully completed ones, but here is one @ about 90%. In the process of installing flood lights...
http://imageshack.us...48/im003176.jpg

I have plans to build a 12'x24' workshop for myself within the next year. Particularly since my grandfather has offered to give me his ShopSmith (Mark V) that he really hasn't been able to use in the past 6-8 years. That said, do you have any good recommendations on how conduit should connect to my home for the LV runs between the structures? I would obviously bury the conduit to the workshop and have it enter via the foundation, but I haven't yet figured out a good way to have it enter my home...

 

[sbwright]

We just finished our garage, the house in the next year or two. Pretty much following your process. Followed what Work2Play advised you above although we purchased a separate panel and components up front and made the garage sensors install complete, the Elk will move to the house once its built, just need to run databus cable. The cost is the same in the end but wanted to save my time of rewiring to another panel later. Went wired for all security sensors, if you want to get to 100% reliability IMHO wired is the best way to get there given running wire is a non-issue.

Must be location our garage is 24x55 cost approx 100k, foundation and flooring alone 15k.

 

[tmbrown97]

I gotta get out of this area - What I'd do with a nice workshop...

As for conduit entering the building, most of the time I've been stuck going up the exterior then entering via the side. Depending on the size of the conduit and what's in it, usually there's an LB fitting to help with pulling. For larger commercial stuff you end up with a large metal box and removable cover.

If you can get it inside the wall, that's even better - just come up 2' into the exterior wall and have an access panel to access it and for connecting interior to exterior wiring. Around here, that's also right next to the breaker box so it's a good place to ground with lightning/surge arrestors as well when you make the connection to the interior wiring. Then run conduit up to the attic or basement in case future changes are needed.

 

[heitjer]

The flexibility of moving the Elk M1 Gold later into the house and building on this convinced me. I am purchasing the Elk M1 plus M1XEP. With this hurdle out of the way I would like to clue you in the cost - just FYI:

Slab $13k, Building $21k (Garage Doors and Insulation included), Erector $6,5k, Windows & Door $1k, inside framing + plumbing approx $6k, Septic Tank $6.5k, just the inside cabling & copper cables from the power pole was $1.8k. On top you need to add approx. $5k in City of Houston Fees and Surveys plus Civil Engineering fee for drainage.

 

[tmbrown97]

All the more reason it's smart that you'll be protecting it from the start. You won't regret it one bit.

During pre-wire, consider if you want to run wiring to any of the doors for RFID sensors or similar for future use and be sure you wire to each door and window. I think these sensors are compatible with big roll-up doors like that.