X-10 VS Insteon

Digger

Senior Member
As everyone knows I had problems when I only had a few Insteon installed. Many times the commands never made it through because of noise etc. I had to get to over 30 devices. Then they started to fail soooo fast etc. etc. etc.

Anyway............

I bought some cheap used X-10 off eBay for S^&Ts and Giggles. I put a few in and they work perfectly so far where I had problems with Insteon.

WHY is that? I thought INsteon would be much better (it is in theroy). But with only 4 installed so far in essential places where even my wife missed the automation they work just fine. Time will tell if they last.

Anyone else regress back to X-10? I miss the virtual 3 way though.
 
I haven't got past it yet. ;-)

I have two Icons because I wanted the dimmer functions. . . I use them under X10 mode.

Reliability isn't perfect, but I can afford it! I just do a double hit on my "off" automation. . . I have two switches I can't seem to reach- I suspect I need some filters. I'll get to it eventually.
 
I never left x-10

For me, x-10 is extremely reliable. I'm in a rural area on my own power transformer. I had to install a few filters on things like the air filter in the living room and my computer, and I have an ACT CR234 coupler/amplifier. I feel I enjoy at least 99.8% reliability and so I ain't gonna' mess with it.

Digger - What do you mean by virtual 3-ways. Can't you accomplish pretty much any switching method with x-10? I use ACT 2-way switches and ACT transmitters to set up 3-way, 4-way or any multi-way scheme I can dream up.

I admit that I do not use any of the low end x-10 devices, except for a couple Lamplincs from Smarthome. I have a mix of ACT, PCS and Lightolier. They all seem to enjoy working together.

John
 
My setup still includes about 50% X10 and the rest Z-Wave and my X10 switches are as reliable as my Z-Wave switches. I haven't had a missed command that I know of in months. I do not have any x10 filters but do have a coupler/repeater which seems to have been the magic of a successful install.
 
I never left x-10

For me, x-10 is extremely reliable. I'm in a rural area on my own power transformer. I had to install a few filters on things like the air filter in the living room and my computer, and I have an ACT CR234 coupler/amplifier. I feel I enjoy at least 99.8% reliability and so I ain't gonna' mess with it.

Digger - What do you mean by virtual 3-ways. Can't you accomplish pretty much any switching method with x-10? I use ACT 2-way switches and ACT transmitters to set up 3-way, 4-way or any multi-way scheme I can dream up.

I admit that I do not use any of the low end x-10 devices, except for a couple Lamplincs from Smarthome. I have a mix of ACT, PCS and Lightolier. They all seem to enjoy working together.

John

With X-10 you need travelers I thought. With INsteon you do not. Or am I missing something?

I am using some low end used X-10 at the moment. They are soooooooooooooooooo cheap and they work (so far) where Insteon was a problem with so few installed.

I cant beleive how much money I wasted on Insteon when X-10 may prove more reliable and a hell of a lot cheaper. There are also many more types of X-10 devices compared to Insteon. I bought some 230 V appliance modules new for $10 and they work. Insteon has no such animal.
 
As I am just learning automation methods, so I spent maybe $150 on 30 wall switches, coupler, 5 filters, 3 appliance modules and a CM11a.

The part that is the most unreliable is the damn x10 software, once I got that stable as long as a keep .1 second between commands I haven't had any troubles yet.
 
As I am just learning automation methods, so I spent maybe $150 on 30 wall switches, coupler, 5 filters, 3 appliance modules and a CM11a.

The part that is the most unreliable is the damn x10 software, once I got that stable as long as a keep .1 second between commands I haven't had any troubles yet.

I am not using any X-10 software. I just use the ELK and a PLC. So far much easier and more reliable but I bet the hard part has not come yet.

The switches etc. are a lot cheaper. If they work for 5 years or so I will be happy. Heck I could have easily done my whole house for way under a thousand dollars. Instead I wasted $3K on Insteon that died in less than a year at 5 or 6 times the cost (and the prices are still going up). SH sells products with known problems but I would say they may not be alone there. I still have my evidence box as others do. If there is ever a class action lawsuit I will be signing up fast.

Lesson learned for me........ never buy an unproven product (unless its so cheap you cant resist) from a company with poor customer service history.
 
I running a combo of Insteon and X-10. When I purchased my Insteon switches they were cheaper than X-10 ones with lightbars and such so it made economic sense. (Would not be true today). I use Insteon for keypad links and virtual 3-way situations (You really can't tell which are the masters and which are the slaves because the response is so fast). I also have PowerHome running some core lighting stuff using Insteon.

I use X-10 for motion sensor control through my stargate and some X-10 RF stuff. I also sometimes have better luck using an X-10 ALL OFF command then an Insteon group command with all the cleanup traffic.

If I am worried about unexpected operation from line noise I use Insteon addresses only (attic, outside, etc.) If I want stargate to control something then it is Insteon+X-10. All of my switches are Insteon so they can be set up either way.
 
I running a combo of Insteon and X-10. When I purchased my Insteon switches they were cheaper than X-10 ones with lightbars and such so it made economic sense. (Would not be true today). I use Insteon for keypad links and virtual 3-way situations (You really can't tell which are the masters and which are the slaves because the response is so fast). I also have PowerHome running some core lighting stuff using Insteon.

I use X-10 for motion sensor control through my stargate and some X-10 RF stuff. I also sometimes have better luck using an X-10 ALL OFF command then an Insteon group command with all the cleanup traffic.

If I am worried about unexpected operation from line noise I use Insteon addresses only (attic, outside, etc.) If I want stargate to control something then it is Insteon+X-10. All of my switches are Insteon so they can be set up either way.

Yes the Insteon prices were great but that did not last long. About as long as the switches did. I agree with you on virtual 3 way. It was a great feature to have.

I thought INsteon would be better in noisey situations but looks like I totally misunderstood that. So far X-10 looks to be the better way to go. I never got the all off command to work with INsteon (never got all of the lights to turn off at once and it was never always the same ones).

My wife hates the word insteon so we now call them "outsteon" in my house :lol: since the umpire threw them out of the house :unsure:
 
I love my X10 setup....and more importantly my wallet does as well :lol: .

Happy as a clam here on HS 1.7.44!

The only problems I have had was when I installed a Leviton HCA 02 repeater - and things went crazy.

The same thing happened when I had the built in boosterlinc in my Keypad 6 turned on. Turn it off = no more problems.

I DO have a PASSIVE bridge in the breaker box.

Funny, but I do have three RR501's from Ebay coming today (CHEAP) - can't believe that I just found out that they are two-way and report their status to HS. I use them with a W800 so lights still work if the computer is down. (TM751's are junk and a source of many problems.)

However, I want to SINCERELY thank all of you for being BETA testers for me - I owe you lunch. :unsure:

Thanks,

GLT
 
Yup, X-10 and HomeSeer 1.7 here as well. Don't know if I am "happy as a clam" but pretty close! :unsure:

I found that getting an X-10 meter, an X-10 signal/coupler in the breaker box, and finding all the signal sucks has made my system very reliable and cheap.
 
I also have a mixed system. Some things Insteon does not do. Like 2 wire wall switches; chime modules, phone responders and until real recently remotes.
I would have used a SocketLinc Dimmer in my old two wire areas, but as many may remember. I found them not living up to what Smarthome/Smartlabs said they would do. Remember their state on a power loss and not go to FULL ON no matter what they where at power loss. I have kind of backed off my wanting to be the first with a new Insteon Device and am waiting for the Jury to return a verdict before jumping on the RemoteLinc Band wagon. :unsure:
 
I have about 80% Insteon, 15% X-10 and 5% UPB (I was evaluating UPB and have been too lazy to replace). In my situation Insteon performs much better than X-10. I do have a phase coupler in the 220V dryer outlet but haven't really done any other line noise mitigation.

The biggest difference I do notice is the speed. I have a few lights that do not have a neutral in the box and so I still use X-10 in those locations. When these switches are activated from an Insteon keypad, it can take a second or more or multiple tries. I have several UPSs in the house and I'm sure they are sucking signals but the X-10 lights aren't used that often and I will eventually pull a neutral to those locations when we remodel.

I have had two Insteon switches go bad out of about 20 in the last two years and they were both from very early batches. At this point, I am keeping my fingers crossed. I have a box of Lutron Radio RA switches waiting to be played with but I can't afford to put them in my own house. :unsure:

A thread like this really illustrates how each house has it's own characteristics and how much mileage will vary.
 
I have about 80% Insteon, 15% X-10 and 5% UPB (I was evaluating UPB and have been too lazy to replace). In my situation Insteon performs much better than X-10. I do have a phase coupler in the 220V dryer outlet but haven't really done any other line noise mitigation.

The biggest difference I do notice is the speed. I have a few lights that do not have a neutral in the box and so I still use X-10 in those locations. When these switches are activated from an Insteon keypad, it can take a second or more or multiple tries. I have several UPSs in the house and I'm sure they are sucking signals but the X-10 lights aren't used that often and I will eventually pull a neutral to those locations when we remodel.

I have had two Insteon switches go bad out of about 20 in the last two years and they were both from very early batches. At this point, I am keeping my fingers crossed. I have a box of Lutron Radio RA switches waiting to be played with but I can't afford to put them in my own house. :unsure:

A thread like this really illustrates how each house has it's own characteristics and how much mileage will vary.

My point was to say with 10 or so Insteon reliability was horrible. With over 30 it was pretty good (good enough not to complain). With the X-10 with 4 going the reliability has been fine. No compliants.

But as you say each house is different and each protocal will behave different.
 
I have about 80% Insteon, 15% X-10 and 5% UPB (I was evaluating UPB and have been too lazy to replace). In my situation Insteon performs much better than X-10. I do have a phase coupler in the 220V dryer outlet but haven't really done any other line noise mitigation.

The biggest difference I do notice is the speed. I have a few lights that do not have a neutral in the box and so I still use X-10 in those locations. When these switches are activated from an Insteon keypad, it can take a second or more or multiple tries. I have several UPSs in the house and I'm sure they are sucking signals but the X-10 lights aren't used that often and I will eventually pull a neutral to those locations when we remodel.

I have had two Insteon switches go bad out of about 20 in the last two years and they were both from very early batches. At this point, I am keeping my fingers crossed. I have a box of Lutron Radio RA switches waiting to be played with but I can't afford to put them in my own house. :unsure:

A thread like this really illustrates how each house has it's own characteristics and how much mileage will vary.

My point was to say with 10 or so Insteon reliability was horrible. With over 30 it was pretty good (good enough not to complain). With the X-10 with 4 going the reliability has been fine. No compliants.

But as you say each house is different and each protocal will behave different.


I get your point and I am glad it's working for you. I am not an advocate for any of the lighting technologies, it's pretty obvious I can't make a clear commitment to any one of them. The one firm HA choice I have made and never regretted one bit is the ELK M1 but I know I preaching to the Choir by saying that.
 
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