z-wave range and unreliable links to locks

[zzazzles]

Hi all,
 
So I finally got my Z-wave locks (all schlage BE469) set up with my OPII, using VRC0P as the secondary and VRUSB as a primary. However, the links seem really unstable. They have worked, but only once in a while. I don't know if this a range issue, or a setup issue.
 
Here's a brief overview of my (very simple) setup:
1. One VRC0P connected to my OPII panel.
2. Two BE469 Schlage deadbolt locks.
 
When I use the VRUSB placed very close to each lock, I can control them very reliably. However, controlling (locking/unlocking) them through the OPII only works once in a blue moon. More weirdly, sometimes I observe a very long delay--sometimes as long as a minute. Also, the status hardly ever updates reliably.
 
Does this sound like a range problem? I have a very small house so I'm just surprised. The two locks are both within ~25ft of the VRC0P, through one door and maybe one wall. Is that too much for Z-wave to handle? (I know that I have only 3 nodes, and more would be better.)
 
Thanks.
 

 

[picta]

You can try a range extender (a beaming dimmer, for example) or two. The zwave locks have very low range, mine are within 5-10 ft from the nearby node. Any metal in the walls would distort the signal also.

 

[wkearney99]

I don't know the specifics but there are some diagnostic tools to help map out how the devices are communicating with each other.  Basically, how they learn their mesh and how it's performing.  From what I gather, the most typical way to improve things is to make use of a plugged-in z-wave devices as that will provide a constantly-powered point for the wireless mesh.  Not just wireless devices as they're only powered-up long enough to send their reports.  Then it's a matter of the mesh of devices learning their best paths for communicating.  
 
So maybe a device or two plugged in along the way between your locks and the panel would help?

 

[pete_c]

Here mostly testing my Z-Wave network rather than using it.  Just using only some 20 Z-Wave devices for my testing.  I do have a few outside plugged in to outlets attached to the house and in berms 50-100 feet away from the house.
 
Did a quickie Optimization using the Primary Z-Wave Plus controller in the attic which uses the secondary VRCOP  Z-Wave controller in the basement of the two story home.
 
I have 4 Z-Wave devices plugged in to the attached garage which is some 35 feet wide with one Z-Wave device plugged in to one end furthest away from the secondary controller.  This device has some 15 neighbours that it saw during my optimization this morning.
 
Note that the primary is a Z-Wave Plus GPIO card plugged in to a RPi2 sitting on a POE connection in the attic.  The VRCOP connections all work fine with the OPII panel sitting in the basement.  The VRCOP is near the fuse panel and conduit.
 
Here is a picture showing the Leviton VRCOP secondary controller.  Nodes 3 and 4 are in the attached garage furthest away from the Leviton controller on the opposite side of the house. Node 33 is the secondary Leviton VRCOP.
 
The furthest nodes take the longest time to optimize (routing stuff).
 

 
Nodes 2 and 3 are in the garage.
 

 

[cobra]

Hi all,
 
So I finally got my Z-wave locks (all schlage BE469) set up with my OPII, using VRC0P as the secondary and VRUSB as a primary. However, the links seem really unstable. They have worked, but only once in a while. I don't know if this a range issue, or a setup issue.
 
Here's a brief overview of my (very simple) setup:
1. One VRC0P connected to my OPII panel.
2. Two BE469 Schlage deadbolt locks.
 
When I use the VRUSB placed very close to each lock, I can control them very reliably. However, controlling (locking/unlocking) them through the OPII only works once in a blue moon. More weirdly, sometimes I observe a very long delay--sometimes as long as a minute. Also, the status hardly ever updates reliably.
 
Does this sound like a range problem? I have a very small house so I'm just surprised. The two locks are both within ~25ft of the VRC0P, through one door and maybe one wall. Is that too much for Z-wave to handle? (I know that I have only 3 nodes, and more would be better.)
 
Thanks.

 
If you use the VRUSB near the OPII and VRCOP, can you change the lock state and do the status's update?
 
It sounds more like setup issues.  I saw the 1 minute / long delay issues with my lock and a in wall outlet on a Lumina system sometimes.  Did you have to include / exclude any of the devices more than once during setup?
 
For reliable long term use, your VRCOP should be plugged in to a filtered UPS.  Several people have seen them start to mis-behave over time when plugged directly in to the wall.  It seems they are susceptible to brownout corruption (at least that's my theory.)  If you want it to be reliable, do this early on.  You'll save yourself a lot of headaches.  Otherwise, people see them start to misbehave, and re-programming sometimes requires reseting the entire network.

 

[pete_c]

For reliable long term use, your VRCOP should be plugged in to a filtered UPS.
 
Here mine is plugged in to one circuit / one breaker next to the fuse panel (years now) in the basement and I have had no issues to date. 
 
While using UPB for my light switches here have always had a few Z-Wave devices plugged in to the OmniPro 2 panel and have not had any problems to date with Z-Wave RF footprint in my two story home.  I have had issues with other Z-Wave controllers such that I put them on the second floor to get a better RF footprint.  I started here with the first Leviton Z-Wave serial pim available years ago.

 

[zzazzles]

Thanks everyone! I realized when I first did it yesterday, the VRC0P was not in its final location (at the panel) when I included it in the network. (Does that matter?)
 
So I tried to reprogram all the nodes this morning--with the VRC0P now at the panel. Repeated the same steps with the VRC0P added last. Again, I have just two locks (call them A and B.) Then I tried to set 2-way associations for both locks. But now, the installer complains that the association failed on lock B.
 
I tried controlling lock A, and it works more reliably. Delay is about a few seconds.
 
But no luck on lock B. I guess this sounds like lock B is out of range of the VRC0P, and I messed things up yesterday by not programming it when the VRC0P was at the right place? (just guessing)

 

[drvnbysound]

All Zwave devices should be in their final location when you learn them into your network. During that process they determine who their neighbors are and the mesh is configured accordingly.

 

[cobra]

But no luck on lock B. I guess this sounds like lock B is out of range of the VRC0P, and I messed things up yesterday by not programming it when the VRC0P was at the right place? (just guessing)

That's possible.  You could have also re-learned the network without re-teaching it entirely.  It does expect to learn the relation between devices in their locations.
 
The installer software has options to test communication from node to node, you can try that to see if the nodes can each reach each other.  (Although it seems like some node types don't always work with that for me, maybe locks will not, but since you have two they should both either work, or if one fails, that will indicate you have a distance problem.)

 

[wkearney99]

On my list of things to learn has been z-wave diagnostics and optimizing.  I'm not currently having any trouble, so it hasn't been a pressing need.  But I would like to get a heads-up on the ways to really tell what's going on.  Smart Things, wink, vera, etc, all try to hide that from you, out of a sense of being user-friendly.  Understandable, of course, but not for the audience around here, eh?

 

[pete_c]

The Homeseer Z-Wave plugin does a decent job of diagnostics.
 
That said if you want to get more granular then get an RPi2, Z-Wave me GPIO card and run their free software. 
 
The firmware and software is always being updated.
 
Z-Wave diagnostics is a bit more than what I see with Homeseer.

 

[macromark]

Thanks everyone! I realized when I first did it yesterday, the VRC0P was not in its final location (at the panel) when I included it in the network. (Does that matter?)
 
So I tried to reprogram all the nodes this morning--with the VRC0P now at the panel. Repeated the same steps with the VRC0P added last. Again, I have just two locks (call them A and B.) Then I tried to set 2-way associations for both locks. But now, the installer complains that the association failed on lock B.
 
I tried controlling lock A, and it works more reliably. Delay is about a few seconds.
 
But no luck on lock B. I guess this sounds like lock B is out of range of the VRC0P, and I messed things up yesterday by not programming it when the VRC0P was at the right place? (just guessing)

Ideally, you'd include the locks in your network with the controller in its 'final' location. However, you can't do this if your controller or lock doesn't support network wide inclusion or the range is simply too great. Alternately, you could include the locks with the controller in close proximity, then relocate the controller and perform an optimization (network 'rediscovery'). However, only a 'primary' controller (VRUSB in your case) can perform this function, assuming the software being used with it supports that.

 

[pete_c]

Curiosity question Mark.
 
1 - If I optimize my primary controller (Zee-2/GPIO Z-Wave Plus) then copy the stuff over to my secondary controller (Leviton VRCOP); does it also move the new optimized routes or does the secondary controller do it's own stuff?
 
2 - Can I use the Leviton RF+ Z-Wave remote controller to get all of my Z-Wave stuff as a primary then move all of the stuff over to the Zee-2 making it the primary?
 
I have been able to make the Leviton RF+ remote a secondary to the Zee-2.