Zigbee vs Z-wave

[RArbour]

"To only use it in their own processor?" That's interesting...

To elaborate with an example, Texas Instruments spent a lot of time developing their Zigbee Stack (that has sense became a Zigbee gold standard). Obviously the objective for TI was to sell more silicon, so several parts of their stack they developed is not open and will only work with their processors. They just wanted to make sure someone did not take their stack they spent time developing, and port it over to their competitors silicon. Most other silicon manufacturers did something similar, they all want to get paid for the work they performed.

If you are interested in creating a simple interface with the PC, several companies make a Zigbee dongle (with various silicon) that has an API you can communicate with it. This of course is not really an open stack, but as you imagine it takes a lot less time.

Thanks,
Ryan

 

[GraysonPeddie]

So, is it better to go with propriety standard, such as Z-Wave? What I mean is, is it better to purchase a Z-Wave USB dongle that works with all Z-Wave products instead of multiple ZigBee USB dongles from different companies in order to support different companies?

Pardon me for turning this generic Z-Wave/ZigBee thread into something development-related, since I tend to see "open standard" and "propriety standard" from a software developer's perspective (especially when it comes to embraching open source, which I'm looking forward to do that, but I'm just a home automation hobbyist/enthusiast).

 

[Zanthic]

So, is it better to go with propriety standard, such as Z-Wave?

Just to clarify something, Zigbee is the standard that controls the flow of data, the same way TCP/IP can send data on Ethernet but doesn't define the data. This also means that the data that is riding on top of the Zigbee standard can be whatever you want it to be. So, you can have the fact that Zigbee is an open standard but the individual companies data formatting may or may not be "open". To further compound the issue, some companies are using encryption so you can't even reverse engineer the format. (I'm told this is the case with the Jetstream product but I haven't verified this) This is why there are Zigbee products that don't work with anybody else's Zigbee products. This is also why RArbour mentioned the fact that they are working on HA standards to overcome the fact that everybody has been going in their own direction because the standards take so long to ratify. So, you can currently buy a number of "Zigbee" products but that doesn't make them a "Zigbee" product, know what I mean? :wacko:

 

[GraysonPeddie]

Ah, I get it... Thanks...

*yawn* I think I'm better off with Z-Wave until then. *sigh*

 

[ano]

Ah, I get it... Thanks...

*yawn* I think I'm better off with Z-Wave until then. *sigh*

Z-wave for now, but as I said, I think that will change a few years from now, and that will be much better for everyone. It will mean many more options long-term, and ultimately cheaper prices.

As I stated before, Zigbee uses the 802.15.4 physical layer and this has been adopted for a technology called RF4CE.
( http://www.rf4ce.org ) This link will bring you to the Zigbee Alliance Web Page.

If you don't know what RF4CE is, you will soon. See all those IR remotes on the table? RF4CE will let you replace them all with one remote that really works EVERYTHING. But wait, there is more. For home automation, you'll be able to control all your equipment with your automation stuff or with a remote or maybe even with your cell phone.

And there are other offshoots of Zigbee as well. Imagine reading your water, electric, and gas meters with one Zigbee receiver because the utility also uses Zigbee to read your meters. Unfortunately, this is all a few years off. :wacko:

 

[GraysonPeddie]

Nice thinking ahead into the future, but yeah. I agree.

LOL!

Thanks! :wacko:

PS: Oh, yeah! I'd love to control my TV and home theater receiver with my Windows Mobile smartphone! While there are home theater devices with RS232, my TV and my receiver (Sony STR-DE898 7.1) lacks it (even my $1500 Mitsubishi DLP 57" HDTV lacks it), but I digress.

 

[jokah]

Yes UTILs use things, but it does seem they all have different setups.

Now its time for me to start digging into HA server options. Like HAI + Windows home server, or what.

Doh!

 

[RArbour]

And there are other offshoots of Zigbee as well. Imagine reading your water, electric, and gas meters with one Zigbee receiver because the utility also uses Zigbee to read your meters. Unfortunately, this is all a few years off. :wacko:

This is not as far off as you may think. Many homes already have this but they are mainly localized to certain areas (energy companies running pilot programs). How soon you will see this I believe is dependent on how advanced your energy provider is (as you can suspect rural areas may be the last to adopt). I would not be surprised that several people that read this are just a phone call to their energy company away from being in their pilot programs (It is usually free for the home owner).

Ryan

 

[WSeverino]

I'm focusing on things other than switches right now (security, temp sensors, etc), because I haven't found much Zigbee stuff on the market. Plus, interfacing it with my ELK would likely require a lot of work at this point.

I want Zigbee because it's an IEEE standard and has more potential for integration and interoperability. Unfortunately, there's just not much out there for it now, at least that I can find.

When Zigbee was first announced, I remember reading stuff about how the transceivers would be under $5 each. Well, there're more like $20+ each right now. I assume that's part of the reason manufacturers aren't using them.

FYI - THe Zigbee Modules are like $20 bucks but the actual single chip radio's are under $5.00 in volumes.

 

[ano]

Yes UTILs use things, but it does seem they all have different setups.

Now its time for me to start digging into HA server options. Like HAI + Windows home server, or what.

Doh!

Yeah, I use HAI + Windows Home Server + Web-Link3

It works well together, but Web-Link3 is over-priced in my opinion, and even at that price, its got its share of bugs.

 

[jokah]

yeah honestly I wasnt impressed when i looked at web links interface. Seems like it was written in 1985

Any other options for the HAI that you wished you would have used, or do you have to use their web-link/snap link, etc?