Elk vs DSC

I'm currently in the research phase for systems to be installed in a new home build this fall.  I need to decide on a security system that's Home Automation friendly.
 
I was leaning towards an Elk M1G based system, as it seems to be popular with the DIY crowd.  When I was discussing the home build with a custom integrator I'm considering using for some of the AV systems, he said to stay away from Elk and use DSC, as it has better third party integration.  If I was going with the Elk, I'd be using an M1XEP and connecting to it via ethernet.  If I go with the DSC, it would be an Envisalink 3 for ethernet connectivity.
 
Pros and cons of the two systems from a home automation integration viewpoint?
 
 
 

 I need to decide on a security system that's Home Automation friendly.

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Both Elk and the Leviton HAI OPII are automation friendly. 
 
DSC can be integrated with software automation. 

pete_c said:

Both Elk and the Leviton HAI OPII are automation friendly. 
 
DSC can be integrated with software automation. 

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So what you mean is that Elk and HAI can do (some) automation themselves, but if I go with DSC I need to use some other automation controller?  That's OK, since I'm planning on using Indigo on a Mac mini for the automation controller.

Both Elk and the Leviton HAI OPII are DIY automation friendly.  "some" is relative to what you consider automation.
 
My Leviton panel talks X10, UPB, Z-Wave and Zigbee.  
 
Personally the HAI panel to me is an embedded automation (and security) controller on steroids a little bigger than a currently available automation hub.
 
I am not familiar with DSC other than an IT100 network board for it and that its relatively inexpensive.
 
Googling I see Indigo integration with DSC alarm panels.
 
The DSC is primarily an alarm panel.  There is much automation software today that integrates to the DSC alarm panel.
 
Today I have basically shifted the heartbeat of the home (lighting, HVAC, sprinkler system, audio hardware control) to the Leviton HAI OPII panel.
 
I am using software today to interact with the alarm panel and some 20 plus other hardware devices. 
 
I am Into weather these days. 
 
Basic lighting/HVAC automation integration is managed by the panel and I don't pay attention to it these days.
 
Shifting the software automation to Linux.
 
Today more into the non dependent on one OS for automation rather than any OS dependencies on Automation.
 
Current software / hardware / remote already is Wintel, MacOS, Android and Linux friendly.
 
Its nice that you can control your automation stuff via the cloud; but its not for me.
 
It is also nice that you can remote control your automation with Android, Wintel Mobile and Iphones; but personally it doesn't "float my boat" these days.  I am not tethered to my cell phone though.  IE: cell phone just auto forwards to land line and I shut it off at home while it sits on the charging cradle.  I also shut off the tablets in the house when I am not using them.

As Pete says, its not so black and white. Basically the Elk and the HAI/Leviton Omni controllers are the only ones with what I call built-in automation capability, in addition to alarm functionality. The Envisalink 3 is just an add-on for DSC panels that gives them the ability to control them remotely.  Despite what you read in the press, remote control is NOT home automation, its just that, remote control. Home Automation is a device that can make its own decisions based on programming, and DSC systems don't provide that. Leviton and ELK do, but even there, they are fairly limited in what they will do.  If you want your system to check a weather forecast and not run the sprinklers when its raining, neither the ELK or Leviton can do it by themselves.  If you want that, you must connect a PC or Mac to the Leviton, ELK, or DSC, and there is software that you can run at a higher level that offers much more control. 
 
So, it really comes down to what you want to do and how involved and expensive you are willing to go. The Leviton and ELK are at the middle level, able to do some simple automation, emails, security, etc. DSC is more basic. On the high-end is systems like HAIku Helper for Mac, Homeseer, CQC, that run on a PC and connect to the Leviton or ELK and can do much more.

As I said in post #3, I'll be using Indigo on a Mac for the automation.  I think it's similar in capabilities to Homeseer, and more the HaikuHelper (I think).  I think the integration with the DSC for zone info and arm/disarm will be more than sufficient for what I need.  I looked at the Elk programming pretty closely, and it's quite easy to do everything that it does with Indigo, assuming that the zone information transfer works properly.  And I have no reason to think it won't.

 I need to decide on a security system that's Home Automation friendly.

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Yup; the Elk combo automation and security panel comparison to the DSC alarm panel is sort of an apples to oranges comparison.
 
The Elk panel can provide security and automation with no software help if necessary.  
 
Software is software is software integration and its nice now that the choices are getting plentiful with the onslaught of home automation in general.
 
Its all about what you are most comfortable with and today it is every OS out there. 
 
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A side tangent note not relating to what is the best security panel for automation but rather some verbiage about a new product coming soon. 
 
I like tiny gadgets. 
 
The more they can do; the more I am impressed with them.
 
I've been playing with a new "do what" called the Almond +. 
 
Its a tiny little combo switch, firewall, wireless access point automation hub with a tiny touchscreen. 
 

 
Initially it will be talking Z-Wave and Zigbee. 
 
You will be able to program it for automation and with whatever suits your fancy. 
 
It already has "built" in cloud managment and will have "no cloud" management.  (as stated I am a no cloud type person).
 
I am so amazed with the product I decided to play with a modified microrouter from TP-Link to see how much I could get it to do as the motherboard is maybe 3" square.  I can get it to automate with the base OS.
 
http://cocoontech.com/forums/blog/29/entry-431-tweaking-a-tp-link-tl-wr710n-microrouter/
 
Looks a bit like this device:
 

 
Concurrently also playing with the tiny Homeseer Zee running automation from an SD card on a Raspberry Pi.  It is a bit smaller than the Almond +; but it doesn't have a built in touchscreen.  You can manage it from any OS browser today such that its really not OS specific (well its Linux based).
 

 
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There has been a battle too between different alarm companies entrance into home automation.  Not sure on how much 3rd party integration there is today with the DSC panels.  There are deals being made every day.  The push is coming from a variety of sources.
 
Tyco/ADT with its current footprint will take its automation to the cloud and will probably succeed in getting many of its customers automated.
 
Interesting article...not specifically related to software automation but rather the automation pieces of security being discussed.

 

By Julie Jacobson, December 11, 2013
 
Once upon a time, Alarm.com, a leading provider of cloud-based services for interactive home automation and security, was only compatible with security systems from 2Gig and Interlogix (formerly GE Security). Then it added startup Qolsys to the roster. Now Alarm.com announces support for DSC, a popular security system from Tyco Security Products.
 
Alarm.com will be available in early 2014 on DSC’s Impassa series, followed by select other hybrid systems for global markets later in the year.
 
DSC originally launched its interactivity service with iControl, a competing platform employed by ADT, among others. DSC launched the service in 2011 under the Connect24 brand.
 
Last month, DSC replaced its iControl-direct relationship working with Telguard HomeControl, an iControl-powered service from Telular.
 
Telguard also supports security/home automation systems from 2Gig by Linear.
It appears DSC now will offer dealers their choice of Telguard or Alarm.com services (as does 2Gig).
 
Meanwhile, all three of the service providers—Telguard, Alarm.com and iControl—are embroiled in lawsuits with each other (links below).
 
And arch rival Honeywell is going about its merry business with its own Total Connect service.

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http://www.cepro.com/article/battle_of_home_automation_platforms_alarm.com_scores_with_dsc/

If you are planning on using an automation system (and you have said you are), then the DSC system will be fine.  In fact getting an ELK or a HAI system in that case could be a waste of money.  While some people like off loading automation functionality to the ELK/HAI, if you do it with another automation system then you spent too much money on the ELK/HAI.  Effectively you might use is as a simple security system which is exactly what the DSC system is.  
 
I have an ELK system, but have ended up using CQC for all my automation stuff.  So in the end, I have an overly expensive alarm panel....... I would have been better off with a basic alarm panel like the DSC.

Thanks, Brian, that was pretty much what I was thinking.  I already bought Indigo (http://www.indigodomo.com/), so I'm set for automation.

sic0048 said:

If you are planning on using an automation system (and you have said you are), then the DSC system will be fine.  In fact getting an ELK or a HAI system in that case could be a waste of money.  While some people like off loading automation functionality to the ELK/HAI, if you do it with another automation system then you spent too much money on the ELK/HAI.  Effectively you might use is as a simple security system which is exactly what the DSC system is.  
 
I have an ELK system, but have ended up using CQC for all my automation stuff.  So in the end, I have an overly expensive alarm panel....... I would have been better off with a basic alarm panel like the DSC.

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Except I know CQC supports ELK and HAI well.  What about DSC or another security system?

sic0048 said:

I have an ELK system, but have ended up using CQC for all my automation stuff.  So in the end, I have an overly expensive alarm panel....... I would have been better off with a basic alarm panel like the DSC.

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I did the opposite.  I have HAI and CQC, but HAI constantly adds features like support for Zigbee, and lots more thermostat functionality. I had used CQC to control my HAI panel, but CQC hasn't updated their HAI driver in years, and you can't access most of the new features. At the same time running code on my panel directly is quicker, and unlike a PC, the panel never stops working. I use CQC for voice functions, but in my new home, it will be the panel and HAIku helper on my phone, and that's all I need.  HAI just added an eMail board, so one of the final functions that CQC performed can now be done completely without it. (And CQC doesn't support encrypted email, like most require. The new HAI email board, does support encryption.)

We have updated it recently, though it was more in the area of allowing it to query information from the Omni to set up the driver automatically and to make it compatible with our new V2 architecture (so that it's vastly easier to set up a system to access the core functionality most folks use.) What specific features are you looking for?
 
Ultimately, for us to survive, we have to have a system that's far easier to set up, much more so than one that allows the (very small) group of hard core folks to access every feature. But, if there's stuff that would make a difference and that is reasonable to add, we can do that.

Dean - Besides Elk and HAI, are there any other security panels that have drivers in CQC and are fairly recent?  Meaning I don't want a dinosaur of a panel...I think Elk and HAI are a little long in the tooth as it is....but yes I know it is security and reliability is king.
 
David

Unless there are potential users of them, there won't likely be a driver. We definitely can't afford to do drivers for devices no one is asking for. It's hard enough to do them for the things people are asking for. We also have a DSC driver and one for the Networx NX-8. But I don't think very many of our customers user anything other than Omni/Elk systems.
 
I'm not an expert on the subject, but I don't think that there are that many viable options anyway (meaning a reasonably widely used product with good integration capabilities.) They come with a fairly heavy responsibility and aren't too amenable to venture capital sexy social media tie-ins. Some of the other widely used ones are not integrate-able AFAIK and probably exist purely to get those companies recurring revenue from monitoring.

BTW, the previous beta drop got the RA2 driver up to V2 standards, so you should be able to use the auto-generation system now to create a nice set of interfaces now. No thermostat support in the auto-gen yet, but that will come with a 4.5 followup release.