Elk M1G Configuration

[Linwood]

I'm considering a DIY Installation to replace a hardwired DSC that came with a new house.  The DSC works, but the keypads, the controller are not user friendly (my family would benefit from nice, english, simple keypads for example).  Plus the DSC didn't have the smokes included.
I'm considering the M1, but having a heck of a time finding the info on what is needed to have a complete system.  The install manuals and such on the Elk site are password protected, and determining exactly what is in which pieces and hook together is not obvious.
Needs: Landline + GSM central station monitoring, a dozen or so zones (havent' precisely counted) including smoke and heat, all hardwired except I want some kind of key-fob.  Nice keypads.  Voice, no video.  Will replace the battery smokes of course, and I have easy access to rewire.  Hope to reuse one IR motion, and lots of contacts and siren (ok, iffy on siren, but that's pretty easy to deal with later).
I've done an alarm before (one Moose, one DSC) so not afraid of the technology, but not familiar with current systems or monitoring requirements (i.e. who can monitor what kind of device).  Expecting to pay $15-30/mo for monitoring on yearly contracts (is that reasonable?)  
Here's what I have so far:
One of ELK-M1GOLD (Board, Can, Hardware)
Two of ELK-M1KPNAV Touchscreens
One of ELK-M1XEP Ethernet interface and associated software
One of ELK-W046A uplink cable
One of Uplike 2500 (or some variant, e.g. 2550UL - not clear how to choose)
One of ELK-RMNCD Management software (despite last post, doesn't this permit programming?)
One of ELK-M1XRF2H Wireless, to support only
Two of Honeywell 5834-4 Key fobs
Two fire/heat (model TBD)
Five or so Smokes (model TBD -- need to count exactly what I have now, not at home)
One of ELK-M1TWK Two way listen kit
One of ELK-1280 Battery
One of ELK-TRG1640 Transformer
But I have very little faith that's correct, there may be a bunch of extra stuff in there that isn't really needed, or may be missing important parts to hook together.
So far I've found most of this at places like AutomatedOutlet.com, but not all.   Others like Geoarm look good for monitoring, and will sell some but (at least on the web) not all, and do not appear to be an authorized Elk dealer so I assume no warranty.  ADvice on who might help vet this configuration and talk me (knowledgeably) through options for what to purchase would be appreciated.  Emphasis on Knowledgeable.
I plan to hook it up myself.  Done alarms and do computers for a living so technology doesn't scare me, but would like advice whether the Elk gear (and in particular documentation) is DIY friendly, i.e is it all there, or does one have to go to dealer training to get the secret handshakes.  I'm not afraid of complex, I am afraid of purposely concealed. And the web site's derth of open information is a bit of a concern, despite seeing lots of "Elk is DIY friendly".

 

[murphy]

Hi,

I'm operating an ELK-system since some years.
It was easy to set it up, also to programm it.
Best: this is an awfull flexible system for home automation, not only an alarmsystem

I have no experiences with the new & luxery touchscreen-keypad and also not with the ELK-RM-Software.
I'm using one KP1 and one KP2 and for programming the free ELK-RP2-Software.

You can use the real good service from ELK as
- an ELK-owner,
- a professional installer or
- as an distributor.
I'm registered there as an installer. Do it too -the confirming email is coming fast- and you have access to really all you need.
As all the software-updates, programming hints and examples and all the instructions & manuals for all the devices.

And then make a solid plan of your improved installation, - which is the most important thing!
A lot of basics and hints you will find on this website!

Maybe you need some more I/Os, soon I'll install another system, and also in this project the I/Os on the controll-board are not enough.
But -of course- that may be different with every project.
I only mention this idea (by reading between the lines ...) because of "2 ELK-M1KPNAV", all the smoke-detectors, ...
The ELK-M1TWK takes only 1 output, but if you can extend it to 3 mics, which takes 3 dig. outputs for switching between the mics etc.

Good luck.

 

[Linwood]

Thank you. Not quite sure I understand the latter, I think you are saying I need more digital outputs so I can bring voice response to the second keypad?

 

[Del91574]

I think the post above is missing some points/items that can be addressed with additional hardware, be it audio listen in or inputs/outputs and multiple zones of fire alarm.

I have yet come close to using all 208 inputs and 205 outputs on any install, even those with phantom outputs (close, but never maxed out).

That said, I'm still hoping/waiting for Elk to come out with an SLC fire alarm or multiple 2 wire fire zones (probably neither will happen).

 

[murphy]

Thank you. Not quite sure I understand the latter, I think you are saying I need more digital outputs so I can bring voice response to the second keypad?

Sorry, this is a point which comes much later: those outputs you better reserve, are to activate different microphones. Your kit can handle 3.

At first I would download (and read) all instructions.
Next make a plan for a simple system, - which you are extending later.
But it is also possible planning the final system at once.

 

[murphy]

.....
I have yet come close to using all 208 inputs and 205 outputs on any install, even those with phantom outputs (close, but never maxed out).
.....

That one of the ELK-problems: how to handle the max I/Os with so few rules possible! ;-(
As an example: one of my installations has around 35 I/Os and is using already around 80% of the possible rules.

One problem with such a system for homeautomation is: much more programmig space for the rules is necessary.
On the other side: it also takes more time for the processing unit to handle them,
or you take a more powerfull CPU with faster clock-frequency which consumes more power, producing more heat.

I regret, that the development of the ELK-system looks like stopped.
There are a lot of easy as powerfull improvements possible.

 

[apostolakisl]

That one of the ELK-problems: how to handle the max I/Os with so few rules possible!   ;-(
As an example: one of my installations has around 35 I/Os and is using already around 80% of the possible rules.

One problem with such a system for homeautomation is: much more programmig space for the rules is necessary.
On the other side: it also takes more time for the processing unit to handle them,
or you take a more powerfull CPU with faster clock-frequency which consumes more power, producing more heat.

I regret, that the development of the ELK-system looks like stopped.
There are a lot of easy as powerfull improvements possible.

If you want to put your Elk on steroids, get the ISY99 and the Elk module. You get something like 2gb worth of programming space and it has full control of all elk outputs, keypads, voice, text and full knowledge of elk output states, input states, voltages (with query), keypads, temp sensors, and so on. Pretty much everything but counters and tasks. And the programming language is much more versatile.

 

[Linwood]

I regret, that the development of the ELK-system looks like stopped.

That's not a pleasant thought, I would not like to buy a dead end product? Is ELK dying?

At first I would download (and read) all instructions.

I would love to, I like doing my homework first, but they are locked behind the wall that requires passwords. You (I think it was) mentioned you registered as a professional installer, so I assume you have access to all this, but I am just a homeowner who wants to buy their products, apparently not worthy of reading their manuals until I do. It is annoying. I hope later today to talk to someone from a distributor who can walk me through all the components to make sure I have the right ones (and things like right power supplied for those components). This should all be very easy if I had configuration or installation guides from Elk.

If it wasn't that the other vendors seem to hate DIYers even more, this would be a turnoff from Elk.

 

[wuench]

Homeowners can access the manuals too. I am not sure you need a registered S/N to access manuals like you do the downloads, but maybe. If all else fails just Google the module name, I have seen a lot of installers re-posting the manuals. Or you can work directly with a vendor like Automated Outlet to figure out what you need. If all else fails order your M1G kit, register it, and then order additional components as needed.

And I don't think Elk development is dead. It typically takes several months for them to release firmware updates, usually around once a year, due to all the UL testing etc it requires. They release several new hardware devices this last year like the KPNAV's.

I think you have a good list. I don't know much about the two way listen in interface. Except you don't need to order software, that (ElkRP) is free once you register your unit on the website. You will not get a registration response immediately or on the weekend, so be prepared for that. You may want to order optional items like a M1DBH to make bus wiring easier, or a bigger can than the 14". Additional inputs may be required if you go over the limit (M1XIN) or a relay board if you want more than the 3 onboard (per the comments above) an M1XOVR. But these can all be added later as well.

 

[gatchel]

I regret, that the development of the ELK-system looks like stopped.
There are a lot of easy as powerfull improvements possible.

I have to disagree with this 100%. They just released a new, affordable touch screen keypad, there is "better" wireless stuff on the way. Just because there isn't an "M2" or a new version of the ELK-M1 doesn't mean that development has stopped. I havent used more than 5% to 10% of my rules capability since my system was installed years ago.

When it comes to lighting and email capabilities there could be some improvments but that's where the ISY-99 comes in as others have said.

I would also recommend scrapping the 14" can and going with the SWB-28. You'll thank us later.

One more thing I would suggest is that if you plan on adding several zones or other devices like temperature sensors, I would suggest buying an XIN expander and wire most of your devices to it instead. This way it leaves you room for growth fire, temperature sensors, etc that need to go to the main M1 board. It's a small price to pay to have to possibly move inputs and rewire / reprogram in the future.

When originally researching what system to install the ELk came out on top with every criteria that I had. To think that I was originally going to install an Ademco Vista 20P... :throwup:

 

[chrisexv6]

..... To think that I was originally going to install an Ademco Vista 20P... :throwup:

Same here.

The interesting thing is/was that my goal is a fully hardwired system. Come hell or high water (or drywall and paint, as it may be ) I will hardwire every sensor. I still havent purchased an alarm "brain" yet, simply because hardwired is universal! If for some odd reason I determine Id rather have the Ademco, I can buy it and connect it. If I stick with my original plan and go with the Elk, I can buy and connect that instead.

Further, if you are using wireless, the Elk is more universal than most because you can purchase whatever receiver you want instead of being locked to Honeywell for Ademco, GE for GE, etc.

Also remember things like messaging when events occur, control of your alarm from your phone, etc.....that costs $$$ per month for anyone monitoring an Ademco/GE, etc system. On the Elk all you need is the internet module (one time cost) and some rules programmed in. I believe Uplink (cell monitor that can interface with the Elk) DOES provide messaging and such and it might be included in their standard monitoring, instead of paying an extra 5.00 here and 5.00 there per month like you would with TotalConnect, etc.

 

[Del91574]

While loading up the M1 with piles of rules and automation, I've found (like others) shedding some of the tasks to another controller and using the Elk for what it handles best or better than the automation controller seems to work much better than lumping it into a single system.

 

[apostolakisl]

Many online retailers of Elk stuff have the owners manuals.

Smarthome includes the manuals for most of the Elk products. Here is a link to the M1.

http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/128301I.pdf

 

[Linwood]

Thanks. Been talking to AO and J.Mac and both seem very helpful, I think I can finish off the configuration today and get it on order. The 28" can is a good idea, trying to figure the GE vs. Honeywell by looking at other sensors I might use in the future. My biggest concern right now is power, I'm leaning toward just putting a regular UPS in with the unit, as the GSM, smokes, ethernet, etc. all are power hungry, and that might be easier than trying to inject more power on the data bus. Opinions?

 

[tenholde]

I included a P212S power supply in my 28" can, along with additional battery. Not sure I need it, but It's easier to do while I'm planning everything than later.

tenholde