paralysis by analysis

[pete_c]

Personally; then I would wire for everything and then some and then chases.  Go with the software; baby steps a bit at a time. 
 
Note too resilience / redundancy pieces for your software automation dependencies.
 
As mentioned earlier relating to C4; its a drop in solution you would pay for.  We have one friend that has C4 in a contractor spec home that she bought.
 
Initially it was the learning curve not having to utilize home automation ever in her life.  Then it was a constant updating of hardware over a period of a couple of years which drained her pocketbook; as she had to pay for the hardware and service.  I think she is OK today with it.  She did disconnect the HVAC stuff, kept the lighting and the multimedia stuff.  Not sure what her monthly service costs are.  Personally thinking you will be paying a lot for only a bit of automation with a base C4 package (relatively speaking). 
 
I did have a look at a local Crestron automation "store" nearby where I live.  I walked in and let them do the "shock and awe" thing with variety of customized and automated rooms.  I asked if they could do this and that; they said they could.  Personally it all looked a bit dated to me.
 
To keep up with the new automation stuff; the above mentioned companies have been playing "catch up"; but still very dependent on a closed system that is a bit antiquated by today's standards.  Their deal making is a bit slower now as they do not really have the monies at their disposal as the newer "big stick players have".  IE: Apple, Microsoft, Google, big box stores, ISP's.  This is only my opinion though.
 
That said today the above two solutions work; at a price relatively speaking.
 
This is what I did and it was a learning process mostly relating to playing with automation stuff.....I do not know where I did right or wrong...I just did whatever and whenever I felt like doing it.
 
I started in the late 1970's with X10 automation.  I was always a tinkerer.  In the 1980's I did purchase a combo security panel with X10 automation and text to speech; it was simple with only keypads as consoles.  Never failed me and worked fine until I sold the home.  I left the panel there along with the instruction manual.  In the late 1990's / early 2000's started fresh with automation.  One new home, new construction contractor built home.  Part of the home package included the security alarm wiring and your basic television / telephone wiring.  I made changes to the base moving the central wiring location to the middle of the home rather than using a walk in closet.  That and the contractor let me wire up the rest of the low voltage stuff.  I did more video, audio, network et al cabling.  I did play a bit with the central wiring closet.  A couple of years later went to using an HAI OPII panel and a Leviton wiring panel and just put everything in the two panels.  Its been a few years and the automation there has remained / confined to just the Leviton OPII panel and whatever "do whats" are connected to it.
 
2nd home (sandbox) went initially to automation software that I was using in the late 1990's (Homeseer).  The home was prewired for only telephone using cat5e cabling.  I slowly added rest of the low voltage wiring.  I also added a Leviton OPII panel here and continued to utilize the automation software.  Today I use both.  Relating to lighting technology settled on UPB but also have in place still today X10, Insteon, Z-Wave and Zigbee (playing) in software and the panel today talks UPB, X10 and Z-Wave.  I am using both today (HAI stuff included Omnitouch legacy and Omnitouch new screens).  The software is connected to some 20 plus hardware devices.  The base lighting, HVAC and audio hardware is connected to the panel; set and forget methodology while the software is really not doing basic stuff but rather complimenting the hardware and then some.  IE: I have remote temperature / humidity sensors on the HAI OPII panel.  It wasn't enough such that I added 1-wire networks to the software and it's looking at many more sensors.  I got into that whole sprinkling the lawn thing over the years and went from the Rainbird ESP system in the sprinkler box to using two Rain8nets.  Originally managed serially by the software automation moved everything to a little mini pogoplug that fits inside of the old rainbird can running in linux today it talks to the two Rain8nets and added one 1-wire network to it plus its getting data from the Davis Weather Station.  It was a bit of a fun project.  It can be controlled via the automation controller but mostly its just managed via the web interface on the network and touchscreen nearby.  Concurrent to the Leviton HAI touchscreens (in the wall) added a few more in the wall touchscreens then went to tabletop touchscreens which are literally in every room of the home.  I do not need them; rather I just like playing with them such that I have added now some 20 to the software automation pieces. 
 
Over the years I have added bits and pieces of automation to play and left the Leviton HAI panel automation to manage stuff I don't pay attention much too anymore which I consider the heartbeat of the home; the software / text to speech stuff and hardware connected do much different types of automation and allows me to play in my automation sandbox; but its a hobby.  WAF plays a big part.  Here too while concurrently updating rooms doing whatever (painting, floors, et al) I have updated the automation pieces in the rooms.  It takes a longer time frame; but it works relating to the whole WAF factor.  In FL while doing some updating to the HA (well on a ladder, climbing into the attic, adding this or that) I have asked wife to just go shopping for a few hours; worked for me.  (this is only what I did though).  Many trips  to FL though were solo and it was time to chill out and relax by doing automation stuff to keep me busy and watch the ocean the rest of the time.  (one home I just use the automation and it works fine and the other house I play with the automation )
 
BTW that whole cell phone remote connectivity stuff is old today to me and not really considered automation.  Downloading weather maps from NOAA satellites rather that easy internet access these days is more stuff I consider automation today.  That is me. 
 
Today "playing" with the oldest ZoneMinder box; 5-6 years old; appears to be losing a drive.  That said it is in pieces and I am not wanting to work or spend time with it.  It is running today on Ubuntu 14.X and it still runs fine.  The fix will be to just utilize Gparted and image the working copy over to a new drive.  Maybe 30 minutes of my time and mostly fixing it myself cuz its fun.
 
Other folks (on this forum) would prefer just to start from scratch and buy a new box; easier in one way but you would still have to wait for it. 

 

[pete_c]

@uscpsycho

You have come to the right place to learn. 
 
That said if you want to play with automation you really need to know every piece of it; not just the software but too how the automation hardware connects to the software whatever that is.
 
You are in the planning stages; read up on the forum. 
 
Ask questions as many folks here have been automating for many years.  (literally everything in a typical home today).
 
Make a list of what you want and how to get there and divide up the list to the pieces you can do yourself and the pieces that you want to have done for you.   You can guesstimate or budget depending on what it is you are doing.  IE: putting in automated switches for example; yourself or hiring an electrician.
 
Note too the trending of the "automated switch" from the HV/LV type of switch to the wireless control of LV automated switches.  The base pieces are still the same relating to connectivity or switching of HV lighting whatever it is you decide to do.
 
Really it shouldn't take more than a few days.  I mentioned wire for everything above and then some. 
 
You can automate just about anything these days and you can get a broad knowledge base right here on Cocoontech.

 

[Dean Roddey]

You can definitely do the hardware first, as long as you aren't planning on doing a closed system like C4. If you are going to use C4, then it makes sense to use more of their gear, and get the auto-integration benefits. If not, then you can just choose good gear that does what you want and that provides good automation integration capabilities. Then the software layer can come afterwards, at your own pace. If you use CQC, then you can use the stuff in the video I posted to get yourself up and running with core capabilities quickly and then build out from there.

 

[uscpsycho]

I think that sounds like a great plan.  Do searches on Cocoontech as there have been many threads on wiring.
 
Essentially, you want CAT6 network wire all over the place.  Put the plan for CAT6 together and then triple the number of drops.   Serious, so many things can run on network now that it is what I'd do.  RG6 for cable would be good too but isn't used near as much anymore.
 
For security, run individual wires for every exterior door and window.  I'd also run wires for sensors on the major interior doors, not for security but for later automation (kid opened the door in the middle of the night so turn on the hall light on low and turn on the bathroom light).  Interior door sensors would be cheaper, maybe quicker, and more reliable than motion sensors.  Run individual wires for glass breakage, motion sensors, security speakers/piezos, etc.  Run CAT6 to keypad locations along with wires for speakers at the keypad.  Put a keypad in the closet with the security system.
 
For speakers, run wires to each ceiling location.  Also run CAT6 for keypads although you may or may not use them.  If you plan to put up a projector, run a CAT6 cable that you might use to run an HDMI signal over.  Also make sure to run a power wire where you might put a projector as well as a mounting plate.
 
Also, for TV locations, so many people are putting TVs up on the wall so you want HDMI/CAT6 at that level as well as power.  However, since you really aren't sure where you might put a TV and you won't want plates way up high, just make sure you have plenty of wire in the bottom of the wall that you can pull up higher.  Also, so often power is run a few feet from each corner but you may want power in the center of a wall for TV.  If you have a power plug in the same stud at the bottom of the wall where you want a TV, it will be easy later on to pull wire up the same stud to put power behind the TV.  Also, make sure to keep low voltage (network,speaker) wire a foot away from power wires if you can and if you have to cross, do so at a 90 degree angle.
 
By the way, for any of the wiring such as speakers that you aren't sure where the final location will be, criss-cross the wiring between studs several feet around the location you might select and lightly staple the wire.  This way you can cut the hole where you need, reach the wire, and have plenty of wire length.
 
OK.  That's some quick info.  I'm a novice compared to some of the experts on this board so I'm sure someone will come along with more and better info to think about.
 
And based on what you have mentioned of yourself, I don't think you'll be happy with something like Control4.  You're way too technical to let someone else control your home.  But I'm quite technical too and don't always want to mess with the technology.  But if I had to choose with having some control vs none, there is no way I would choose none when I am perfectly capable to do some of the tweaking.  Of course, only you can make that decision but I like your plan to worry about that later.

 
Thanks, I've been talking to some knowledgable integrators so planning for all that wiring now, just don't know who I'm going to use or what system I'll use. They're smart guys but all seem motivated to sell certain products and solutions so I'm on my own figuring out what system is best for ME.
 
You mentioned you use CQC but haven't gone beyond programming the basics. What is the reason? Is the learning curve to high?
 
Not sure if you caught my earlier question but if you missed it: I'm curious about your comment implying the obsolescence of wired whole house audio. What are the wireless options? Don't they all involve bulky in-room speakers that have to be plugged into an outlet? Is there a custom looking in-wall/ceiling option that is wireless?
 

@uscpsycho

You have come to the right place to learn. 
 
That said if you want to play with automation you really need to know every piece of it; not just the software but too how the automation hardware connects to the software whatever that is.
 
You are in the planning stages; read up on the forum. 
 
Ask questions as many folks here have been automating for many years.  (literally everything in a typical home today).
 
Make a list of what you want and how to get there and divide up the list to the pieces you can do yourself and the pieces that you want to have done for you.   You can guesstimate or budget depending on what it is you are doing.  IE: putting in automated switches for example; yourself or hiring an electrician.
 
Note too the trending of the "automated switch" from the HV/LV type of switch to the wireless control of LV automated switches.  The base pieces are still the same relating to connectivity or switching of HV lighting whatever it is you decide to do.
 
Really it shouldn't take more than a few days.  I mentioned wire for everything above and then some. 
 
You can automate just about anything these days and you can get a broad knowledge base right here on Cocoontech.

 
Thanks. I have been asking and asking and asking. I'm starting to feel like a nag! lol I appreciate all the help I've been getting in this thread so I don't have to start a million threads for every question. Hopefully you guys will keep helping me
 
Can you elaborate on what you mean about HV/LV switches in more layman terms? I get techie talk, not so much electrician talk.
 

You can definitely do the hardware first, as long as you aren't planning on doing a closed system like C4. If you are going to use C4, then it makes sense to use more of their gear, and get the auto-integration benefits. If not, then you can just choose good gear that does what you want and that provides good automation integration capabilities. Then the software layer can come afterwards, at your own pace. If you use CQC, then you can use the stuff in the video I posted to get yourself up and running with core capabilities quickly and then build out from there.

 
What are the auto-integration benefits? Easier programming for the installer or more features at my disposal?
 
I asked this before but nobody answered. If I decide to go with C4 will I have to use their audio distribution and video distribution components? Their own thermostats? Or can I use a different brand that would work with C4/RTI/CQC/etc?
 
I'm still unclear on how a DIY software based system like CQC is controlled. Are there generic touchscreens? Via cellphone? Via computer? This is SUCH a noob question but it's not really obvious to someone who is new to this.
 
When is that fancy 4.5 software going to be released?

 

[pete_c]

HV/LV switches

 
Using a high voltage (HV) automation switch with a wired low voltage (LV) connection that serves as a communications transport.
 
This is different than using the AC power line (like X10 or UPB) and hybrid AC power line and wireless like Insteon or pure wireless like Z-Wave and Zigbee (more to come). (plus RadioRA and more).
 
Personally I am at 100% function with my UPB. (I have recently added ZIgbee automation light switches to play with).  I am also not into having to change batteries on my automation devices; but that is me.
 
Above you see references to RadioRA.  Thinking that wkearney99 is at 100% functions with his RadioRA2.
 
Ask the questions about why this and that relating to automation switches. You can get entertained here with an almost religious fervor about why one methodology is better than another. 
 
Then decide what it is you want to use and why you want to use it relating to automation switches.  This is too relating on the spend per switch including labor and future proofing your stuff. 
 
WAF will ask why an automated light switch can cost $50 and another one can cost $200 and the legacy non automated switch remains at only $5.  Personally its accepted here with reservations.
 
I mention switches because most folks start by automating their lighting.  Mostly you just want to install it once and not have to think about it afterwards.
 
This will be part of your planning (infrastructure for your new home) aside from using conventional standard electrical wiring to switches.
 
Ask about the good and the bad about all of the automation lighting methodologies.  You will get your answers here.
 
Relating to just pure electrical infrastructure; there are methodologies of creating your electrical infrastructure which are automation centric.  Grounding and protection from electrical surges is one topic.  Here I broke down my 200 AMP fuse panel to give me a bit more granularity (and some more structure).
 
 

I've been talking to some knowledgeable integrators so planning for all that wiring now, just don't know who I'm going to use or what system I'll use. They're smart guys but all seem motivated to sell certain products and solutions so I'm on my own figuring out what system is best for ME.

 
That is their job and money while yours is to get the best bang for the buck. 

 

[Dean Roddey]

'm still unclear on how a DIY software based system like CQC is controlled. Are there generic touchscreens? Via cellphone? Via computer? This is SUCH a noob question but it's not really obvious to someone who is new to this.
 
When is that fancy 4.5 software going to be released?

 
CQC is Windows based, and our 'flagship' touch screen client is Windows based. So any Windows client can run it. Some folks also run it via RDP from non-Windows clients within the home. It can be a regular computer, a computer with multi-touch screen where the computer is hidden away and only the touch screen is available, on a wall or table, or a Surface Pro is another option.
 
There are third party Android/iOS clients that use our RIVA technology to display your CQC created touch screens (templates) on those clients. They are slightly more limited because of the way RIVA works, sort of like RDP does. So they cannot do the fancy inertial dragging type scrolls.
 
There is also a third party iOS app based on the room configuration data you saw in the video I posted, but it's not yet been updated for the 4.5 changes.
 
We are probably going to tackle an HTML5/javascript based, cross platform client for the next release, but that is not set in stone right now. Early investigations are going on in that area, with the first step being to replace our Silverlight web site with an HTML5 based one, as a learning experience.
 
There's no need to wait to start playing with 4.5. The betas are highly stable. We are just waiting for early users to see if someone manages to find something that needs to be tweaked before we put it out. Lots of folks are already using it. If you go to the forum, in the Beta Discussions area, there's a sticky at the top that has the current official beta release, in the first post. I've also put links to the new documentation there until it's time to make it the official documentation. The videos won't be updated for a bit yet, but they are 95% still relevant.

 

[wkearney99]

The upshot is RA2 pricing is pretty good lately.  Better than RA1 days.
 
I've learned to focus on functionality, not individual prices when it comes to the automation hobby.  That and it helped to bury $12k+ of switches in the construction loan...
 
One sure winner has been the occupancy sensors in the master closet, laundry and utility room spaces.  It's actually spurred questions regarding adjusting the dim level of the lighting based on time of day.  As in, don't light up the master closet to full intensity in the middle of the night.  RA2 alone doesn't have this sort of conditional programming, so I'm gearing up to address it via 3rd party.  Still on the damned fence for that though.

 

[dgage]

You mentioned you use CQC but haven't gone beyond programming the basics. What is the reason? Is the learning curve to high?

I don't feel the learning curve is too high. Part of it is that I'm working on a kitchen remodel and until I'm done, which should be soon, I haven't worried about interfaces. Part of it is being busy and another part of it was some of the things I wanted to use weren't supported at the time with CQC. Since then Dean has added support for some things I wanted such as RadioRa2 thermostats and I have the thermostats in the box...just as soon as I get time to implement them. Still other items aren't yet supported in CQC. Several of us are waiting on a particular wireless irrigation controller to be supported and Dean has been trying to get the company to send him the API. I expect that will be forthcoming soon after 4.5 is released, which should be soon. I can't speak for Dean but it looks like it is in final beta so it should be soon, very soon. Regarding drivers, Dean seems to build drivers if a large contingent of people want a certain device supported. If it is more of a one-off driver, Dean or some other users can build custom drivers for a nominal fee (drivers rolls into CQC offering). Dean is pretty impressive. He seems to have a tremendous work-ethic and is very open about his work and plans. He has my utmost respect.

Not sure if you caught my earlier question but if you missed it: I'm curious about your comment implying the obsolescence of wired whole house audio. What are the wireless options? Don't they all involve bulky in-room speakers that have to be plugged into an outlet? Is there a custom looking in-wall/ceiling option that is wireless?

Sorry, I did indeed see your question but got busy/forgot to answer. If you want ceiling speakers then I would recommend running the wire for them and centrally locating the amplifier/controller. But the days of "needing" a hard-wired controller in every room is somewhat disappearing. I use Sonos and while it isn't perfect for Whole Home Audio, their software is really good. I can control any Sonos (some Play5s, some ceiling speakers with non-Sonos subs) in the house with any computer, tablet, or phone (iOS, Android, WP8, etc.). Now if you want an intercomm, you'll need to hardwire that I would expect...and that cuts down on your whole home audio options based on what I remember seeing. I'm not familiar enough with the intercomm side but almost feel it might be better separate from the music.


By the way, related to motion lights for bathrooms and laundry rooms, I've switched some of them to an inexpensive Lutron motion switch. It works well, is reliable, and much cheaper than a RadioRa2 switch with RadioRa2 motion sensor. Also doesn't count towards my limit of 100/200 RadioRa2 devices. I don't do this for all rooms as some I want to have the nicer RadioRa2 motion setup but this works for small powder rooms that I don't care to automate. Oh, and I like that it still has a switch that can be turned off without having to wait the normal "no movement" time.

http://www.amazon.com/Lutron-Electronics-Ms-Ops2H-Wh-Maestro-Occupancy/dp/B0076KNP4K/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1403836990&sr=8-4&keywords=lutron+motion

 

[wkearney99]

I like that the RA2 sensors are available in two styles.  Round on the ceiling or the on-wall kind.  That and the ceiling one can be had in black; I've got one on the front porch ceiling.  The laundry and an office closet have the on-wall kind.  Using a separate sensor allows positioning it more effectively.  Having the sensor on the wall switch would only have worked in one of the situations.  Yes, they do count as a RA2 devices. 
 
+1 on Dean's efforts, he really does show quite a lot of commitment to the product.

 

[uscpsycho]

CQC is Windows based, and our 'flagship' touch screen client is Windows based. So any Windows client can run it. Some folks also run it via RDP from non-Windows clients within the home. It can be a regular computer, a computer with multi-touch screen where the computer is hidden away and only the touch screen is available, on a wall or table, or a Surface Pro is another option.
 
There are third party Android/iOS clients that use our RIVA technology to display your CQC created touch screens (templates) on those clients. They are slightly more limited because of the way RIVA works, sort of like RDP does. So they cannot do the fancy inertial dragging type scrolls.
 
There is also a third party iOS app based on the room configuration data you saw in the video I posted, but it's not yet been updated for the 4.5 changes.
 
We are probably going to tackle an HTML5/javascript based, cross platform client for the next release, but that is not set in stone right now. Early investigations are going on in that area, with the first step being to replace our Silverlight web site with an HTML5 based one, as a learning experience.
 
There's no need to wait to start playing with 4.5. The betas are highly stable. We are just waiting for early users to see if someone manages to find something that needs to be tweaked before we put it out. Lots of folks are already using it. If you go to the forum, in the Beta Discussions area, there's a sticky at the top that has the current official beta release, in the first post. I've also put links to the new documentation there until it's time to make it the official documentation. The videos won't be updated for a bit yet, but they are 95% still relevant.

 
Just when I was getting excited about trying CQC I'm starting to feel like CQC is not for me. I want to be able to see the status of my lights, windows, doors, etc. remotely. I want to be able to turn lights on or unlock doors remotely. I want a slick interface to control everything from my Android devices. I also want notifications on my cellphone that are triggered by certain events like doors/windows opening or lights being turned on. Not having these things is a deal breaker for me which is why C4 or RTI might be the best option for me.
 
RDP might work well from inside the house but when away from RDP throws that whole reliability thing out the window. And even if an Android client is in the works I know from experience that it probably won't be any good for a good while. Even new Android apps developed by Google start out buggy and take a while to become polished. Even if there was a solid plan for a native Android app I don't want to go through those growing pains with my home automation.
 
I wonder if Homeseer or Elve or any other DIY software control option has the features I want. Thoughts?
 
 
 

Using a high voltage (HV) automation switch with a wired low voltage (LV) connection that serves as a communications transport.
 
This is different than using the AC power line (like X10 or UPB) and hybrid AC power line and wireless like Insteon or pure wireless like Z-Wave and Zigbee (more to come). (plus RadioRA and more).
 
Personally I am at 100% function with my UPB. (I have recently added ZIgbee automation light switches to play with).  I am also not into having to change batteries on my automation devices; but that is me.
 
Above you see references to RadioRA.  Thinking that wkearney99 is at 100% functions with his RadioRA2.
 
Ask the questions about why this and that relating to automation switches. You can get entertained here with an almost religious fervor about why one methodology is better than another. 
 
Then decide what it is you want to use and why you want to use it relating to automation switches.  This is too relating on the spend per switch including labor and future proofing your stuff. 
 
WAF will ask why an automated light switch can cost $50 and another one can cost $200 and the legacy non automated switch remains at only $5.  Personally its accepted here with reservations.
 
I mention switches because most folks start by automating their lighting.  Mostly you just want to install it once and not have to think about it afterwards.
 
This will be part of your planning (infrastructure for your new home) aside from using conventional standard electrical wiring to switches.
 
Ask about the good and the bad about all of the automation lighting methodologies.  You will get your answers here.
 
Relating to just pure electrical infrastructure; there are methodologies of creating your electrical infrastructure which are automation centric.  Grounding and protection from electrical surges is one topic.  Here I broke down my 200 AMP fuse panel to give me a bit more granularity (and some more structure).
 
 
 
That is their job and money while yours is to get the best bang for the buck. 

 
So you're saying that the HV/LV switches have been the most popular but now it's moving towards HV switches with wireless communication? 
 
 

The upshot is RA2 pricing is pretty good lately.  Better than RA1 days.
 
I've learned to focus on functionality, not individual prices when it comes to the automation hobby.  That and it helped to bury $12k+ of switches in the construction loan...
 
One sure winner has been the occupancy sensors in the master closet, laundry and utility room spaces.  It's actually spurred questions regarding adjusting the dim level of the lighting based on time of day.  As in, don't light up the master closet to full intensity in the middle of the night.  RA2 alone doesn't have this sort of conditional programming, so I'm gearing up to address it via 3rd party.  Still on the damned fence for that though.

 
Lutron's website is filled with all kinds of switches that range from the cheap to the very expensive. Is there a RA2 switch with wireless communication like Pete described? Is that the way to go? What's it called and what's it cost? It's not battery powered, is it?
 

I don't feel the learning curve is too high. Part of it is that I'm working on a kitchen remodel and until I'm done, which should be soon, I haven't worried about interfaces. Part of it is being busy and another part of it was some of the things I wanted to use weren't supported at the time with CQC. Since then Dean has added support for some things I wanted such as RadioRa2 thermostats and I have the thermostats in the box...just as soon as I get time to implement them. Still other items aren't yet supported in CQC. Several of us are waiting on a particular wireless irrigation controller to be supported and Dean has been trying to get the company to send him the API. I expect that will be forthcoming soon after 4.5 is released, which should be soon. I can't speak for Dean but it looks like it is in final beta so it should be soon, very soon. Regarding drivers, Dean seems to build drivers if a large contingent of people want a certain device supported. If it is more of a one-off driver, Dean or some other users can build custom drivers for a nominal fee (drivers rolls into CQC offering). Dean is pretty impressive. He seems to have a tremendous work-ethic and is very open about his work and plans. He has my utmost respect.Sorry, I did indeed see your question but got busy/forgot to answer. If you want ceiling speakers then I would recommend running the wire for them and centrally locating the amplifier/controller. But the days of "needing" a hard-wired controller in every room is somewhat disappearing. I use Sonos and while it isn't perfect for Whole Home Audio, their software is really good. I can control any Sonos (some Play5s, some ceiling speakers with non-Sonos subs) in the house with any computer, tablet, or phone (iOS, Android, WP8, etc.). Now if you want an intercomm, you'll need to hardwire that I would expect...and that cuts down on your whole home audio options based on what I remember seeing. I'm not familiar enough with the intercomm side but almost feel it might be better separate from the music.


By the way, related to motion lights for bathrooms and laundry rooms, I've switched some of them to an inexpensive Lutron motion switch. It works well, is reliable, and much cheaper than a RadioRa2 switch with RadioRa2 motion sensor. Also doesn't count towards my limit of 100/200 RadioRa2 devices. I don't do this for all rooms as some I want to have the nicer RadioRa2 motion setup but this works for small powder rooms that I don't care to automate. Oh, and I like that it still has a switch that can be turned off without having to wait the normal "no movement" time.

http://www.amazon.com/Lutron-Electronics-Ms-Ops2H-Wh-Maestro-Occupancy/dp/B0076KNP4K/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1403836990&sr=8-4&keywords=lutron+motion

 
Are you saying that $20 switch will work with RA2? My integrator is telling me I HAVE to use the very expensive Lutron switches.
 
I need LED lots of dimmers for LED lighting. Will this work for $54? Or do I need this $200 dimmer? 

 

[wkearney99]

All automated switches cost quite a lot more than plain ones.  RA2 can be purchased at prices on-par with other automated switches.  When looking for RA2 switches most will have the RRD- prefix.  That one you linked to is not a RA2 switch.  There are plenty of resellers that supply RA2 devices, I've generally paid around $90 for a RA2  dimmer, more for keypads and hybrids (a keypad with a dimmer built-in).
 
The battery in the occupancy sensors is estimated to have a 5 year life.  That and the way it's mounted makes it pretty easy to replace.  You trade the ease of placement against fixed position and pulling wire.

 

[Dean Roddey]

Just when I was getting excited about trying CQC I'm starting to feel like CQC is not for me. I want to be able to see the status of my lights, windows, doors, etc. remotely. I want to be able to turn lights on or unlock doors remotely. I want a slick interface to control everything from my Android devices. I also want notifications on my cellphone that are triggered by certain events like doors/windows opening or lights being turned on. Not having these things is a deal breaker for me which is why C4 or RTI might be the best option for me.
 
RDP might work well from inside the house but when away from RDP throws that whole reliability thing out the window. And even if an Android client is in the works I know from experience that it probably won't be any good for a good while. Even new Android apps developed by Google start out buggy and take a while to become polished. Even if there was a solid plan for a native Android app I don't want to go through those growing pains with my home automation.
 
I wonder if Homeseer or Elve or any other DIY software control option has the features I want. Thoughts?

 
Hmm.... I think you misread. There are third party Android and iOS clients already, and you can do all those things you want to do. They just have a couple limitations relative to the native Windows viewer.
 
The HTML5 client is something for the future, which might make those separate per-platform clients unnecessary.

 

[pete_c]

So you're saying that the HV/LV switches have been the most popular but now it's moving towards HV switches with wireless communication?

 
No. 
 
There are multiple choices.  There are also established over the years automated switches and newer automated switches using aforementioned means of transport / communications.  Many companies are selling automation everything using wireless trinkets.  My base automation switches are UPB, base occupancy sensors are wired, zoned audio is wired, thermostats are wired so forth and so on.  My base automation stays home along with the remote access privy to my personal configuration.
 
Here the price differences relating to the switches go along the lines of features and amperage capacity.  I've reduced the "footprint" of my switches by going to dual load multi paddle switches that use an inter switch linking which works autonomously from the mother ship control. 
 
I utilized a piece of software for the UPB lighting called Upstart.  Each of the light switches are little computers than can function independently or via linking without the use of the mothership whatever that may be.  I am OK with that right now.
 
Much of the new is convenient and cheaper and faster to implement; but not better. This is my opinion.

 

[tmbrown97]

This is quite the long thread - SO much good information; I'm sure I'll miss a few points I'd like to touch on. 
 
For starters though I liked this:

I'd love a truly independent and knowledgable consultant who doesn't have any skin in the game to design a system for me that will be installed by someone else. But I don't think such a person exists, anyone this knowledgeable is going to have skin in the game.

I actually do this on occasion for people... but at the same time right now you're getting this from the whole forum.  I'm also a dealer for RTI, ProControl, RadioRa2 (certified for the larger systems, not just essentials), and I'm working with Crestron right now.  I can look up any of the products you're looking at to ensure drivers exist for them.
 
As you've no doubt figured out, trying to nail everything in the middle of construction is just unrealistic - but it's perfectly reasonable to make choices to go with systems/products that are integration-friendly, then come back and tie it all together once the house is built.  Nothing about the house should absolutely require the automation up-front; those are just items that make living in the house more convenient and enjoyable.
 
RadioRa2 is a great lighting system - it's a bit more expensive than UPB, but it looks so much more polished and professional and ties together well with most systems.  The RTI remotes work very well - and in one install I'm working with, we have an RTI remote but no RTI processor - it's the Crestron receiver that's picking up the remote codes and controlling the theater.  It's very seamless and easy to use.
 
My biggest complaint about the DIY world is that there are no nice looking touchscreen/control options.  There's just nothing that compares to the aesthetics and functionality of a Control4/Crestron/AMX touchscreen.  In my own home, I have an Elk M1G - and the iPhone interface works pretty well to control things - but I'm about to toss an RTI remote into the mix just so that, while sitting in bed, I can turn down the temperature, kick on the ceiling fan, switch on the UPB appliance module attached to the subwoofer (wife drives me nuts - always killing the bedroom sub), and play whatever I want; will probably also tie in the whole house fan so we can kill it without even getting up.  The only thing I'm dreading is I think I'll have to write the Elk driver myself.  This would never drive me to C4 though - at least tossing an RTI processor into the mix gets you their touchscreens and iOS/Android control.
 
Another point brought up - interior doors - I really like this, and most of my interior doors are tracked.  This is used to turn on lights in the closet/pantry, alerts me if the young children get out of their rooms at night (turns on the hall and bathroom lights for them as well), and lets me know if houseguests/babysitters are poking around in rooms they shouldn't be. 
 
I don't recall seeing anything about cameras, but if you have any desire to do security cameras, do them now - it's SO much harder later.  Even if you're not sure, run the wire.  The "most prepared" method calls for siamese RG6 plus 16/2 and a cat5, but nowadays the single Cat5 is sufficient; don't just run through the wall - but surface mounted j boxes - many cameras have dongles that should be protected.
 
For audio, Sonos is fun - has a better app - but it's very expensive compared to the old standby options of Russound or Nuvo that can integrate with any system.  Or if you go HAI OmniPro, you can get their HiFi2 as well - which should be controllable through RTI or any other remote system that can talk HAI.
 
Thermostats - going with the HAI or AprilAire or one of the serially connected ones should get you integration with most anything - at least run Cat5 to the thermostats and ensure there are plenty of conductors in the thermostat wire.  It's unfortunate that RCS dropped their smart zone control instead of just improving on it - I really like that system (I have it here); but smart thermostats should be able to be integrated as well.
 
Video distribution - i saw mention of getting HDMI in the walls... I just wanted to mention that the current generation of HDMI over Cat5 extenders really do work well - so don't be afraid of going that route too if you need.   I have them driving 3D TV's and 4K projectors working just fine; about to do a large matrix as well using the HDBaseT extenders.
 
I'm sure I'm missing some things - but my biggest point is that there are a handful of professional options that integrate well so as long as you choose those now you can come back and tie in the automation and interface options down the line. 

 

[pete_c]

+ 1 WorktoPlay
 
@uscpsycho - might be easier for you to get the services of an automation "specialist" that works for you and not specifically for any one automation company to custom fit the automation to your needs. 
 
Many many years ago during commercial building construction I used an interior decorator.  Mostly cuz she knew much more than me relating to the coordinating of space using colors, furniture and do whats.  I had her involved from "soup" to "nuts" and it worked for me. 
 
Best for you to hire an automation "head chef" obi wan that works for you and pay that person for their expertise. 
 
You are getting to a point of having to make automation infrastructure decisions unless there is no timeline for what you want to do. 
 
IE:
 
I had an old friend build a new home on his farm while he lived in the old home.  It was some 3 years to decide on what he wanted (mostly just staring at drawings / architectural what if's) then went into about 3 years of construction which worked for him.  He is living in the house now (2 years later) but there are still things left over not completed; well automation is one of them.  BTW the home is wired for just about anything relating to automation.
 
Another friend decided to build a home near his old vacation home in Colorado.  Similar to above relating to the pre planning time frame.  Only thing here was that his costs for construction went up some 100%.  Bad thing was that he had to build a road (> $100000 USD) to his new land nearby.  That and trying to find water proved to be an issue after a spend of approximatly $60-100K.  He recently cancelled his plans and decided to live in the other vacation home nearby (which he rarely used and was new anyways).