Addressable smoke detectors?

[syzygy]

Hey everyone, I'm looking to see if anyone can point me in the right direction -- I'm looking for wireless, addressable smoke detectors that integrate with some sort of home automation system.  I don't have any home automation yet so nothing is off limits.  What I'm looking for is a system that will notify me (text, email, phone call, etc.) when a smoke detector goes off and tell me exactly which detector it was that went off.  Strong preference to some sort of wireless technology, and strong preference to something that doesn't require a monthly service fee.
 
Thanks!!

 

[RAL]

I'm not sure why you would want the system to call you when a smoke goes off.  With fires, every second counts and the normal response of central monitoring stations is to call the fire department immediately.  Are you expecting frequent false alarms?  Even then, on the 1-in-1000 chance that it isn't a false alarm, I think I wouldn't want to waste any time before calling the fire department.

 

[drvnbysound]

Wait for it...
 
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/26086-ul-finished-testing-m1-and-wireless-smoke-detector/

 

[roussell]

There's also the Nest Protect.

 

[syzygy]

Wait for it...
 
(Link removed since I'm a new member and prohibited from posting links)

Hmmm interesting. I had actually seen that thread and somehow forgot about it already... Oh right I think it's because they haven't actually been released yet (only announced). I'll be keeping an eye on that.

 

[syzygy]

There's also the Nest Protect.

I've seen that. Very very cool, they've fixed everything that's wrong with traditional detectors and even a few things that weren't wrong with them! (Only other thing to ask for is batteries that don't run out... ).

Only problem is the price: I'm looking to deploy this setup in two properties totaling I think 11 detectors in one and 30 in the other... Which makes the price of nest protect add up just a little too quickly.

 

[wkearney99]

Only problem is the price: I'm looking to deploy this setup in two properties totaling I think 11 detectors in one and 30 in the other... Which makes the price of nest protect add up just a little too quickly.

 
Then you have to ask just what's the value proposition?  If you need what the product offers then that's the price.  
 
Otherwise it just comes off as the usual 'how do I get something for nothing' demand, and that's just annoying.  Everything comes with a price and with automation there's a lot more expense behind the scenes.  They wouldn't be charging what they do for monthly plans or devices like this if there weren't a lot of costs involved.  That you don't want to pay that doesn't change the market.
 
I'm sure someone would be more than willing to work up a quantity discount on them for that many.  Likewise the same could be said for working with a monitoring company.  

 

[Del91574]

Almost every commercially available alarm system that supports RF offers smoke detectors that are addressable and report back to some sort of system. The only variable is what that system is and what it speaks to....if you don't want a lot of hardware between the automation computer and the smoke, well, that's going to be an issue.

 

[syzygy]

Then you have to ask just what's the value proposition?  If you need what the product offers then that's the price.  
 
Otherwise it just comes off as the usual 'how do I get something for nothing' demand, and that's just annoying.  Everything comes with a price and with automation there's a lot more expense behind the scenes.  They wouldn't be charging what they do for monthly plans or devices like this if there weren't a lot of costs involved.  That you don't want to pay that doesn't change the market.
 
I'm sure someone would be more than willing to work up a quantity discount on them for that many.  Likewise the same could be said for working with a monitoring company.  

 
 
Sorry, totally not trying to come off as 'want something for nothing' -- just trying to find out what other options there may be that aren't as heavily advertised and therefore maybe not as well-known.  For instance -- I just discovered that Lowe's is selling a smoke detector (ZSMOKE) and a combo CO and Smoke (ZCOMBO) under their "IRIS" brand -- but they're really Zwave under the hood and compatible with any other Zwave network.  The ZSMOKE is under $30 per unit and would gives me a heartbeat (hourly) which could serve as a (somewhat delayed) tamper alarm, as well as battery status and alarm status via Zwave.  I could either use Lowe's "iris" base station ($99) or any other Zwave controller... making it much more cost effective than the Nest Protect.  Not as cool, to be sure, but functional for my purposes.

 

[syzygy]

Almost every commercially available alarm system that supports RF offers smoke detectors that are addressable and report back to some sort of system. The only variable is what that system is and what it speaks to....if you don't want a lot of hardware between the automation computer and the smoke, well, that's going to be an issue.

 
I'm really just looking for options.  Complexity is not an issue, functionality and of course price are the concern.  Searching the web for "RF smoke detector" yields a TON of options.  I see a miriad of commercial alarm systems that offer some sort of RF smoke detector option but some, especially the ones from the larger companies, have *so* many options it's not immediately clear where to start.  I came here looking for advice from people with real-world experience with different systems and can offer advise on *specific* offerings.

 

[Del91574]

The best solution is going to be an alarm system smoke detector. That said, you need to determine what ancillary systems you're going to add and what sort of functionality you're looking for....if it's just a widget on your smartphone and self monitoring, then cheap consumer items would suffice. If you're looking at reliability and possible notification to you and authorities...well, I'd look at a system smoke detector.
 
The largest item would be if you really want to self-monitor a fire alarm or have commercial monitoring. Personally I wouldn't even consider the former.

 

[syzygy]

The best solution is going to be an alarm system smoke detector. That said, you need to determine what ancillary systems you're going to add and what sort of functionality you're looking for....if it's just a widget on your smartphone and self monitoring, then cheap consumer items would suffice. If you're looking at reliability and possible notification to you and authorities...well, I'd look at a system smoke detector.
 
The largest item would be if you really want to self-monitor a fire alarm or have commercial monitoring. Personally I wouldn't even consider the former.

 
So, what do you use (both for a system and for monitoring?)  Your profile lists CaddX, DSC, Elk M1, and Custom under hardware -- I'm guessing from that and your username you're a commercial installer of said systems?  Is this a good place to ask for your thoughts on which system to get?  I'm guessing (haven't searched yet) there are probably lots of other threads covering pros/cons of various systems/options...

 

[wkearney99]

Their website is unclear on this, but I'd venture the 'free' level of service for Iris is not aimed toward multiple locations all within one account.  But I didn't see any 'terms of service' info on their website (took some digging to find it: https://www.irissmarthome.com/myhome/terms)
 
It doesn't appear to explicitly state it, but it does refer to 'your home' as the location for the service to be used.  That and I'd venture their website probably doesn't allow adding multiple hubs to one location, or multiple locations.  So then you'd get into having to set up multiple accounts, but given it's not for 'your home' you'd potentially be in violation of their terms of service.  Hard to say, but I'm guessing if you call them you'll find out their 'free' service wouldn't apply.  There are also alert & notification limits involved, but no clear explanation of what happens when you exceed them (being bumped up to the $10/mo. plan most likely).  There appear to be a couple of 'gotcha' areas where you'd have to be using the pay-for tier to access.  Especially if you wanted to consider having tenants being able to use some of the more sophisticated options like door locks or cameras.  Never underestimate the drain tenants can put on your time & resources for crap like this...
 
To me it seems like all of the babysitting this would require would very likely exceed whatever rate you'd be charged by a professional monitoring company.

 

[syzygy]

Their website is unclear on this, but I'd venture the 'free' level of service for Iris is not aimed toward multiple locations all within one account.  But I didn't see any 'terms of service' info on their website (took some digging to find it: https://www.irissmarthome.com/myhome/terms)
 
It doesn't appear to explicitly state it, but it does refer to 'your home' as the location for the service to be used.  That and I'd venture their website probably doesn't allow adding multiple hubs to one location, or multiple locations.  So then you'd get into having to set up multiple accounts, but given it's not for 'your home' you'd potentially be in violation of their terms of service.  Hard to say, but I'm guessing if you call them you'll find out their 'free' service wouldn't apply.  There are also alert & notification limits involved, but no clear explanation of what happens when you exceed them (being bumped up to the $10/mo. plan most likely).  There appear to be a couple of 'gotcha' areas where you'd have to be using the pay-for tier to access.  Especially if you wanted to consider having tenants being able to use some of the more sophisticated options like door locks or cameras.  Never underestimate the drain tenants can put on your time & resources for crap like this...
 
To me it seems like all of the babysitting this would require would very likely exceed whatever rate you'd be charged by a professional monitoring company.

 
 
Yeah looks like you're probably right about the limitations of the IRIS service/hub.  Seems like many of these limitations could be overcome by using an alternative Z-Wave hub. 
 
About the time drain -- any decision in this arena affects the balance of time and money, I totally get that, especially where tenants are involved.  This specific question about the smoke detectors is just one area I'm interested in gaining additional ongoing insight into the status of the property, and I'm asking about it here since I'm having trouble finding good information about addressable smoke/CO alarms.  All of the other aspects I'd like to monitor seem to be available in every offering I've looked at -- water leak alarms, min/max temp alarms, humidity, etc... 

 

[Del91574]

Honestly, given the scope and what is involved...I think going into a DIY product realm is a bad idea and can get you into a heap of trouble especially with what is involved.
 
All you need is one incident and all is done. Granted, I do not know what locale you're in and what your responsibilities are, but usually, once you introduce some system (though counter intuitive) up to a certain level, the AHJ can require you to install it up to a compliant system, such as those that are required...that's the big gotcha, a supplementary system vs. required.
 
It's a fine line between putting in smoke alarms (the battery or 120V jobbers) and smoke detectors and then the notification requirements that go along with them.
 
Given the realm of what you're looking at monitoring and interfacing, I'd start looking at a panel like a Honeywell Vista and then if you want to put other functionality on it, deal with that independently.....and with multiple tenant items, you're looking at a commercial burg/fire panel combo and that leaves out the HAI and Elk panels to start off with.