Apologies and another question

[mikefamig]

Yes, I prefer the DBH when possible.

I was poking around the system with a volt meter and noticed that there was a voltage drop of about 0.5v across one of the rj45 plugs that would come and go when I wiggled the plug in the dbh. I used cheap "Ideal" brand plugs that I bought at the big box store so I blame the plug and not the socket at this point.
 
Can anyone recommend a good quality rj45 crimp plug that doesn't cost an arm and a leg and is not very difficult to install. I have a high quality Tyco crimping tool with interchangeable die sets so I don't suspect the tool to be the problem. I like the IDEAL plugs because the load bar that they use makes installation easy but I question their quality.
 
Mike.

 

[drvnbysound]

I've been using the Ideal terminations for about 5 years without any issues.

 

[mikefamig]

I've been using the Ideal terminations for about 5 years without any issues.

I used them all over my house for IP TV without any visible problems but the volt meter doesn't lie. They also don't feel like they snap into a socket as tightly as some I've seen.
 
Mike.

 

[Del91574]

Installed literally thousands of Ideal plugs when I buy low quantities. Never an issue. Usually a small flex of the tab on any 45 helps the "snap" factor.
 
Unless you want to buy a box of AMP (Tyco Electronics now) or similar plugs by the 1M or more.
 
Usually the larger issue is using an improper die (for the plug, it DOES make a difference and the better dies state which plugs they're designed for) or improper die/plug combination (such as plug designed for tinsel or stranded wire/satin flat cord vs. bulk).
 
Not a fan of the DBH's personally (compared to direct connected cables). Plugs are only so good, as are the cable routing (which stinks for maintaining bend radii in a structured can).

 

[mikefamig]

Now I would like to know what "T2AB" means. I was getting this error code when I had the system set up as one area. I do believe that it was the same wireless adapter causing the errors but why was it T2AB when one area as opposed to T2A2 with two areas?
 
Mike.

 
I answered my own question here and I'm embarrassed that I even asked the question now. The "B"in T2AB" is hexadecimal 11. It's been so long since I've done any programming or had to deal with hex that I didn't see it.
 
Mike.

 

[mikefamig]

Update
 
I'm just about ready to call my problems with the M1 being caused by the wireless adapter although I'll feel more comfortable when it's worked well for a week or so.
 
The system ran great for a week without the wireless connected. I installed the new replacement wireless adapter that I received from Elk and the system has been good for two days with it. Elk reports that they found nothing wrong with the wireless system that I returned to them but it did not work very well here. So that points to something in my installation causing the problems but it is beyond me. I also sent my user account export to Elk at their request and they haven't reported finding any problems.
 
One thing that comes to mind at this point is that the m1xrftw is installed on the wall only a couple of feet above the M1 control and the installation instructions say to put it four feet from the control to avoid electrical noise. While this is potentially a problem it is hard to call it being that the new unit is working well in the same location.
 
To sum it up, Elk was good to me, the system is running again and I'm a happy camper.
 
 Mike.

 

[mikefamig]

Update
 
After the system running well for a couple of days with the wireless adapter connected I decided to attach the final component of the system, an M1TWA audio amp. A short wile after attaching the twa the system chimed a random zone violation. Now this was a BIG clue as to what's gong on and seemed to rule out the wireless adapter as the culprit. It occurred to me that it is not any one component causing the problem but It was the number of components connected.that was causing the problem....in other words it was the load on the power supply.
 
So I redistributed the load between the controller and the p212s and got the system to stop chiming for a day. Then last evening I got a random chime. It wasn't even a valid chime, it just said one word "DOOR". When I looked at the system error log I saw that at 6:15pm there was a "1367 = control start up".  This was another clue because this is the time that I have a rule checking if it should close the the doors and arm my garage which would cause an increase in the load on the system. The rule did not trigger because I was working in the garage but it IS the time that the rule would have triggered if I was not causing motion the garage so I think that the motion detector and xin may have increased the load at at that time.
 
This load is on the p212s ps and not the controller. A few days ago I doubled the cat5e wires attaching the p212s to the garage as it is a long run. I currently read 13.8v at the p212s and 13.0v at the garage which is a 0.8v drop over ~250'. Today I will add another twisted pair to the connections and see if it increases the voltage at the garage.
 
Mike.
 
EDIT
 
What I don't understand is why I am able to put the doors up and down with the M1OVR and it all seems good. Why doesn't that cause a problem?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
.

 

[Del91574]

The load on the panel does not change during arm/disarm, unless you have other items that fire during such...like outputs. The load on the panel and keypads are consistent in standby. The only item that changes is a touchscreen or item with an active backlight. All in the cutsheets.
 
You're confusing how systems work, current draw and loading. An input board has a constant draw. Powered detectors have 2 states, standby and active relays, which if you can't account for the active load on the system +10%, you've got a design issue. Outputs only change loading if they are on, which is in the cutsheet. Any control activity does not change the loading unless it is an alarm state or peripherals are changing state based on specific rules;arming and disarming won't change the draw, only peripherals that are changing state.
 
C5 for a 250' run with any sort of load is undersized.
 
Here's what you've got going on: your 1367 in the event log is NOT the panel rebooting. You don't have enough power out there based on the load you have out there. You've got you XOVR out there, which is a HUGE current sucker, especially with active outputs. You've got a power problem out in the garage which is causing your peripherals to drop out and then rebooting, which is reported as a 1367 (system startup). Most likely the XOVR and TWA are the two culprits. The relays change state, the TWA announces, placing a large load on the power, dropping the XOVR and causing it to reboot. The M1 doesn't care if it exists or not, as it's outputs and not inputs.
 
As I mentioned before, the M1's devices don't like having anything less than about 12.5V constant and once you approach 12V or below, they reboot.
 

 

[drvnbysound]

Wait, maybe I missed this. Where is your TWA located? Is it in the garage ~250' away?
 
If so, how are you connecting J2 and J4 to the M1G?

 

[Del91574]

I think the TWA is at the panel based on other posts. I think he's only driving the audio locally and not to the outbuilding.

 

[mikefamig]

Wait, maybe I missed this. Where is your TWA located? Is it in the garage ~250' away?
 
If so, how are you connecting J2 and J4 to the M1G?

 
The p212s used to be in the garage but I moved it into the house. The controller and the p212s are in the same box along with the M1TWA.
 
The control power supply powers:
 
1 dbh
1 xep which uses the wallwart included wit hit but still draws a little current from the control
1 KP2
1 M1XRFTW
 
The 212s powers has two 1amp outputs
 
#1 carries:
1 M1TWA
 
#2 carries the devices in the garage via three of the cat5e twisted pairs for the 12v supply.
1 DBH
1 XIN
1 OR
The Orange , blue and brown are 12v+ and the three corresponding striped leads are 12v-. I have 13.9 volts at the 212s in the house and 13.28 volts at the garage.
 
The green twisted pair of the same cat5e is used for data A and B.
 
Where did I go wrong?
 
Mike.

 

[mikefamig]

C5 for a 250' run with any sort of load is undersized.

 
I am using three cat5e twisted pairs for the power, brown, blue and orange for + and the corresponding striped wires for -
 

Here's what you've got going on: your 1367 in the event log is NOT the panel rebooting. You don't have enough power out there based on the load you have out there. You've got you XOVR out there, which is a HUGE current sucker, especially with active outputs. You've got a power problem out in the garage which is causing your peripherals to drop out and then rebooting, which is reported as a 1367 (system startup). Most likely the XOVR and TWA are the two culprits. The relays change state, the TWA announces, placing a large load on the power, dropping the XOVR and causing it to reboot. The M1 doesn't care if it exists or not, as it's outputs and not inputs.

 
The devices on the xin is seven wired magnetic sensors and one wired motion.
The load on the ovr is three door openers which are not in operation when the restart occurs
.

As I mentioned before, the M1's devices don't like having anything less than about 12.5V constant and once you approach 12V or below, they reboot.

 
I have 13.2 volts at the xin and the ovr in the garage and as I said above the restart occurs when all is still.
 
Mike.
 

 

[mikefamig]

I just went out to the garage and armed the area while monitoring the voltage at the xin. I watched the ovr as  the rules closed two of the three doors and the system armed itself with no problems. The voltage dropped to 13.0 volts each time the ovr switched the door motors which should be no problem.
 
Mike.

 

[Del91574]

The XEP does not draw power from the control if you are using the wall wart, the only item it shares with the panel is a serial connection which is not a load on the panel.
 
3 pairs of C5 do not equal the ampacity that should be using 18 AWG. Also a big faux-pax and technically against code (placing power source in parallel).
 
You have a board rebooting, that's what the 1367 is indicating. I would be hard pressed to believe it's the M1, but may be possible, as I have heard others report one of the firmwares is suspect. The fact that the M1 behaves without having additional loading on it (TWA on supply) tells me you have a power issue.
 
Are you saying you had your meter attached and were reading the voltage directly via a DMM? Any other method is not giving you the real story. Has the wiring been absolutely verified that no grounds or other faults exist?
 
By having the load maxing out the output of the 212 (TWA) you did not provide any headroom on the supply....at least 10%. You stated that if you disconnect the TWA the panel behaves, so that tells me you've got a unit that is pulling the panel/supply down.
 
If I had time, I'd tell you I'd take a drive over there, but I'm a little under the gun at the moment.

 

[RAL]

Mike -
 
By my calculations, for a 250' run, the 3 pairs of Cat5e have a resistance of about 4 ohms.  (that's over 500' of total wire length, since you have to count both the resistance of the +12V wire and the resistance of the common.  If the  XIN and XOVR are both drawing their nominal current of 65mA each, you should see a voltage drop of about 0.6V, which is pretty close to what you actually measured.
 
But consider what happens should the current draw suddenly increase due to say, one of more outputs going active.  If the current increases to 0.5A, that will cause a voltage drop of 2V.  And a draw of 1A would cause a drop of 4V.   That would be enough to cause problems for the XIN and XOVR.   A momentary  increase like that will probably not show up with a meter - they just don't react fast enough.
 
[Edit:] I have to correct myself.  A relay coil is an inductor, which in theory should limit the instantaneous change in current draw.  Still, it represents a new, additional power load to the power supply, so it will cause some additional current draw and a corresponding voltage drop.
When a voltage is applied to a relay coil, there is a momentary inrush of current that can be substantially higher than the nominal current that the relay draws after it settles down.
 
DEL might have some further insight as to whether this is possibly what is happening.