Argh! Life was simple when it was only x10, now I am lost

[Jvivek]

I have read and read. too a point where I am actually getting more confused. maybe you will guide me.

I want to control two lights, plus two lamps in my bedroom with a remote.

so I am buying two insteon dimmer switches, then two lamp modules. problem solved correct?

but my problem now is what do i need to buy for me to control them using my harmony remote. Lutron IR dimmers wont work because the actual dimming switches are located outside the room.

 

[DeLicious]

first of all, welcome to cocoontech!

let me preface this post by saying i'm a upb guy, and these opinions might seem biased that way, but also keep in mind that i'm one of the few people having serious upb problems (albeit, very occasionally). here's what i have gathered on the three main technologies that can be used with pre-existing wiring:

insteon - some people are happy, a lot are not. there seems to be a very high rate of switch failure and horror stories per capita with this technology. many on this board would recommend against it.

z-wave - more reliable than insteon... much fewer bad stories. however, if you were hoping to use your harmony remote for z-wave purposes (you don't exactly mention what model it is), the z-wave enabled remotes have not lived up to their hype (search for harmony on the forum for details if you were planning on going this direction). i can't be sure, but i don't think z-wave has any native IR control, so you would likely need a 3rd party solution to use your remote if it is IR only.

upb - as a general consensus, i believe more people are more content with this technology than the other two. of course, there will always be stories to the contrary on both sides, but i believe upb has proven more consistent anecdotally. on the down side, it is a little more expensive than the other two technologies. if your harmony remote is IR learning or web programmable, PCS makes a controller (either in-wall or tabletop, as you see fit) with a built-in IR receiver. your harmony could send the appropriate IR codes to control UPB links. add to that the appropriate lamp modules and some load-controllers (the PCS controller doesn't manage a load) and you should have your solution.

for your shopping needs, i personally recommend automated outlet. martin always has good prices and excellent service, both before and after a sale.

have fun automating!

 

[Jvivek]

first of all, welcome to cocoontech!

let me preface this post by saying i'm a upb guy, and these opinions might seem biased that way, but also keep in mind that i'm one of the few people having serious upb problems (albeit, very occasionally). here's what i have gathered on the three main technologies that can be used with pre-existing wiring:

insteon - some people are happy, a lot are not. there seems to be a very high rate of switch failure and horror stories per capita with this technology. many on this board would recommend against it.

z-wave - more reliable than insteon... much fewer bad stories. however, if you were hoping to use your harmony remote for z-wave purposes (you don't exactly mention what model it is), the z-wave enabled remotes have not lived up to their hype (search for harmony on the forum for details if you were planning on going this direction). i can't be sure, but i don't think z-wave has any native IR control, so you would likely need a 3rd party solution to use your remote if it is IR only.

upb - as a general consensus, i believe more people are more content with this technology than the other two. of course, there will always be stories to the contrary on both sides, but i believe upb has proven more consistent anecdotally. on the down side, it is a little more expensive than the other two technologies. if your harmony remote is IR learning or web programmable, PCS makes a controller (either in-wall or tabletop, as you see fit) with a built-in IR receiver. your harmony could send the appropriate IR codes to control UPB links. add to that the appropriate lamp modules and some load-controllers (the PCS controller doesn't manage a load) and you should have your solution.

for your shopping needs, i personally recommend automated outlet. martin always has good prices and excellent service, both before and after a sale.

have fun automating!

automatedoutlet website is the worst site for online retailer, not only is it horrible but it is painfully slow, I looked at the site and went to another retailer. But I guess I will visit it again if the service is there, then I will shop there.

 

[sloop]

might shoulda read more before selecting insteon - there is no ir interface for it yet - and the way smartlabs/home is popping out new insteon products every day...lol

but there is a rf remote available now that you can buy - you will also have to buy at least one accesspoint

you might be able to buy an ir interface and use the insteon devices in x10 mode - kinda defeats the purpose of buying insteon though

i had a han-something ir interface for x10 that would learn commands - i placed it at the end of my ir blaster so it was all hidden from sight - but that is now in my craplinc box in the garage because i got suckered into about $3,000 worth of insteon that does not work - bummerlincs me out

 

[BLH]

I would also say. Before thinking about Insteon; read the message threads here and on other Automation sites.
Many are not happy with Insteon. My long awaited SocketLinc Dimmers where not only late in delivery. They didn't even match the Users Guide in how they where to act with a power loss. They went Full ON and not to last known state as indicated in the manual. Now they are GONE from the web site and someone said maybe in 6 months. Mine went back with the 30 day not happy guarantee. Smarthomes half baked workaround was not an option to me.
I have also had one of the well published SwitchLinc Relay push buttons stop working failure.

 

[Rupp]

I have read and read. too a point where I am actually getting more confused. maybe you will guide me.

I want to control two lights, plus two lamps in my bedroom with a remote.

so I am buying two insteon dimmer switches, then two lamp modules. problem solved correct?

but my problem now is what do i need to buy for me to control them using my harmony remote. Lutron IR dimmers wont work because the actual dimming switches are located outside the room.

If you want to use your Harmony Remote, assuming it's the Z-Wave capable Harmony remote, you needed to buy Z-Wave hardware to control your lamps. There's a lot of information on the capabilities of this remote listed here as well as on the HomeSeer bulletin board as well. Z-Wave has some nice remotes as well.

 

[ginigma]

I’m an Insteon guy. I’ve had my share of problems, but not as bad as a lot of people. I’ve been Ok for about 1.5 years. I don’t think there are any big issues with the lamp modules (LampLinc). It’s the in-wall dimmers that people complain about most.

Anyway, as people have said, depending on which Harmony remote you have, depends on what other hardware/software you will need. If IR only, many people have used the X10 IR-543 (not sure if that’s the exact model number). You can set links between that and the other Insteon modules in X-10 mode. I wanted to stay away from X-10, so I am using a USB UIRT with PowerHome software. The UIRT receives the IR message and triggers the command in PH to control the lights. I have a Harmony 880, so in my Watch TV/DVD activities, I automatically dim the lights when starting those activities. It works real well.

The only downside is you need PH running all the time. Not an issue for me, since that’s my main HA server running a lot of functions.

I think a lot of people are waiting for an “IRLinc” from SmartHome. I was, but got tired of waiting and decided to DIY it. I’ve been very happy with the solution. As others have said, read the forums about people’s experience with Insteon. There are a few with real bad experiences, and a lot with minor experiences. I also think there are a lot of people with no issues, but people usually don’t post the “good” issues. Hope this helps.

 

[DeLicious]

automatedoutlet website is the worst site for online retailer, not only is it horrible but it is painfully slow, I looked at the site and went to another retailer. But I guess I will visit it again if the service is there, then I will shop there.

hmm... i have no speed issues with them.

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

Please let me know what issues you are having.

Thanks,

Martin

 

[nsisman]

Please let me know what issues you are having.

Thanks,

Martin

Hey Martin,

I just tried your website from my laptop and it took 35 seconds to get to your main page. (3:50 pm)

Bottom of the screen said something about "php" for about 10 seconds and then "catalog" for about 15 seconds.

Does seem a might slow compared to what it used to be !


Neil

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

Thanks Neil, we're working on it now!

 

[upstatemike]

If IR only, many people have used the X10 IR-543 (not sure if that’s the exact model number). You can set links between that and the other Insteon modules in X-10 mode.

I didn't want X-10 addresses in my Insteon switches so I use the IR-543 with an X-10 to Insteon translator module. Works fine but you can't buy the translator any more. You have to buy a regular PLM and download the translator software into it.

The only downside is you need PH running all the time. Not an issue for me, since that’s my main HA server running a lot of functions.

I have also used PH to do the X-10 to Insteon translation and it works fine too. This is the way to go if you are planning to use PowerHome anyway. (And nobody should be seriously considering an Insteon installation without PowerHome).

 

[Jvivek]

If IR only, many people have used the X10 IR-543 (not sure if that’s the exact model number). You can set links between that and the other Insteon modules in X-10 mode.

I didn't want X-10 addresses in my Insteon switches so I use the IR-543 with an X-10 to Insteon translator module. Works fine but you can't buy the translator any more. You have to buy a regular PLM and download the translator software into it.

The only downside is you need PH running all the time. Not an issue for me, since that’s my main HA server running a lot of functions.

I have also used PH to do the X-10 to Insteon translation and it works fine too. This is the way to go if you are planning to use PowerHome anyway. (And nobody should be seriously considering an Insteon installation without PowerHome).

alright I was strictly looking at insteon, now I am considering UPB which is more expensive.


I need the following:

bedroom
two lights, need dimmers for this.
two table lamps & one table fan, <- this could change into air conditioning and heater depending on the weather.

I need the above controlled by the easiest thing which for me will be my harmony 880 remote, if it is easier or cheaper to control using a small remote, then that would work also, I need simplicity, I don't want computer control or nothing.


there is one last thing i need, I have a light in the basement stairs that the switch is in the basement, i was to install upb dimmer on this also, but I want to use another switch upstairs and convert it to control the basement light also.


Also why is there Hair UPB, PCS PulseWorx, simply automated upb. which one to buy?

getting even confused since I spent few days on insteon, now upb is got me all confused, expecially the virtual 3 way I want to configure. also to configure upb, do i need to have computer hardware? if so if someone can guide me at automatedoutlet.com parts list i would need to buy.

thank you.

 

[DeLicious]

so, the virtual 3-way setup should not be difficult. you could set up a button on an upstairs controller to send a UPB link to the switch in the basement which controls the load down there. easy as pie. that's what the system was designed to do.

to control from your harmony 880 will be a little difficult due to the lack of good IR options. as I mentioned before PCS has an IR receiver on one of their controllers, but I've never used it and don't know how sensitive it is. It might almost be easier to get an X10 RF to UPB bridge and a universal X10 RF remote or even just a palmpad. I'll try to put together a sample shopping list for your when I get to work later...

As for the different manufacturers, it's really personal preference and price point that will help you make a decision. PCS is the company that invented the UPB specification, but they also tend to have the most expensive hardware. HAI and SA just implement the specification, so any combination of switches should be able to work together. The same way two computers with different manufacturers can talk to each other because they both use the same protocol.

And yes, for anything beyond the most basic setup, you will need a computer interface and the free UPStart software available from any of the 3 vendors. This will allow you program each button on a controller individually as well as set up each load's response to individual links (i.e., turn on 100% for link1 and link2, turn on to 50% for link3, turn off for link4).

i hope this answers most of your questions, but if you need clarification, just point out where you still need it and i'll try answer the question when i get to work and try to put together that sample shopping list for you.

 

[Steve]

Yes, you do need something to program the UPB switches. Most people use the Computer Interface Module (USB linked, there is a serial one also) which you attach to a pc or laptop where you run the free UpStart software to program the switches. Alternatively, you can use the dedicated UPB Pocket Programmer. Unless you are a pro doing alot of remote installs, I recommend the CIM and UpStart. You will find programming UPB to be much easier than Insteon unless you use something like Powerhome software.

PCS 'invented' UPB and were the first, HAI and SAI are the other 2 manufacturers. All of their products are 'compatible' and most people choose based on price or features. Each manufacturer has some unique offerings. Like SAI has a changeable faceplate on their US240 switch which many people like. PCS has IR on their keypad. HAI and PCS have lighted keypads, SAI doesn't. The LEDS on them are different colors and brightnesses and the feel of the switches are a bit different. Like I said, it comes down to features, prices and preferences. You can find all the UPB devices at Automated Outlet.

There are 2 devices made, 1 for X-10 RF and 1 for IR to UPB. If you want to use the 880 you would probably have to use it in IR mode and use the IR to UPB converter. Otherwise you will need a Palmpad or other X10 RF transmitter to use the X10-UPB converter.

Edit: Looks like I was typing at the same time as Delicious :blink: