Broconne's Wiring Adventure

[beelzerob]

Heh...ya, we didn't get the bonus room (floorplan really wasn't conducive to it), but we did get a storage area above the garage with pull down stairs. We're VERY happy about that. It's funny...I'm living in a house with a basement for the first time ever, but I seriously do NOT want to store stuff down there. It just seems like once it gets down there, it never comes back.

 

[judge_l]

Are floods from washers really that common an occurrence to be worth preventing at this cost? In the 10+ years of owning a washer, I've never had anything like this come close to happening. Of course, it only takes once....

Right now our washer sits in a tray that contains a drain...so if something happens internal to the washer, I've really no fears that it'll be contained. I guess if the hose outside the washer burst, then that'd be a different animal...but I guess I didn't know those hoses just simply failed all of the sudden.

If that's the big fear, then it seems like you'd be able to buy a new hose every year for quite some time before you'd approach the cost of controlled valves.

Our home owners insurance sent us coupons to get these hoses for the washing machine and ice maker. I'm not sure exactly how they work, but the one end has a device to stop the flow if the hose bursts.

 

[judge_l]

Broconne, those central vac collection 'pans' are pretty awesome. Wish we had a few. I bet they can be located inside the wall, with only a trimmed cutout visible.

Oh, found 1:

I bet I could add 1 in the garage pretty easily...hmmm.

I added one to our kitchen. They are probably a little to big to fit inside a wall. They are designed to go under a cabinet. One unexpected benefit I've found-my daughter thinks it's cool, so she actually will clean up stuff she spills on the floor.

 

[beelzerob]

One unexpected benefit I've found-my daughter thinks it's cool, so she actually will clean up stuff she spills on the floor.

Ho boy is THAT a slippery slope. At least you can always go to the vacuum bag to retrieve what she decided was "dirt" when you weren't looking.

I know our 2 year old would be having a lot more "accidents" if it meant she could use the fun nifty thing in the wall to clean it up...

 

[broconne]

broconne: if the budget is becoming an issue i woudl seriously consider scalling back a little to allow you to actually get some HA functionality rather then spend all the money on wiring that is useless and doesn't raise WAF when not connected to anything cool.

For not being able to do any pre-wire youself you'll be having a LOT going in.

It would be hard to pick where to scale back if you had to though....

We also had the option for a bonus room...we didnt take it since we already had more space then we needed. So we now have a door from the upstair hall into the unfinished space

Yeah, in this house the bonus room wasn't an option it was include. I maybe could have saved $3 to 4k by not finishing it.. I am basing that off on the fact that adding the media room only costs 5k and it is much bigger. In this part of the country a large part of the sale price of the home is calculated based on square footage. To get the "base" price you take the neighborhood price per sq ft and multiply it by the number of square feet then do + and - for various items. So removing the bonus room may save me 4k now but would cost me 8k If I were to sell.

It is very hard to pick where to scale back.. This list, believe it or not, is scaled back. Here is where we are currently. Ranked by potential cuts. Higher less likely to be cut.

1)
Media Room 5.1 Pre-Wire: $590
ALC/OnQ: $3600
Heat Pre-Wire: $80
CO Per-Wire: $120
Door Contacts: $720
Whole House Vac: $2530
Whole House Audio: $2520
Pipe Chases (19): $3250

Level 1 Total: $13410


2)
Camera Pre-wire: $300
Home Run All Window Contacts: $515
Occupancy/Motion Pre-Wires (Some strategic cuts possible): $1080
Upstairs Window Contacts: $680

Level 2 Total: 2575


3)
Smoke Pre-Wire (Just change out the basement one to be a GE relay kind): $160
Temperature/Humidity (Strategic non-bathroom cuts): $400
Level 3 Total: $560


Plus another $700 in misc. Thermostat runs, etc.


Now, on this list there are a few things that I may be able to do myself once it is framed and I can see how the first floor is setup. For example, first floor temperature sensors I can put in myself once I make sure there is no blocking where I couldn't fish through. I should be able to do all corner motion sensors and I should be able to do all glass breaks. But I really won't know that until everything is framed.

I hear what you are saying about saving some money now and using it for HA. But honestly, if I didn't spend it now it would just go to furniture rather than HA when I moved in anyway

 

[beelzerob]

Personally (and I really mean that), I think if you're seriously considering selling in the somewhat near future (considering cost to build vs. cost to recoup in a sale), then that probably decides a lot of things for you. Pretty much all of my HA decisions and direction right now are solely for our comfort and enjoyment...I believe they'll have close to NO value if we were to sell..which we're not even considering doing for the next decade or more.

All that to say, I'd tend more towards HA improvements that will actually boost the value of the house, AND that are easy to transfer to another owner (so, hardware is probably better than software control). So, media and whole house audio is good. Security is probably good (depending on your location). But somewhat more extended control like HVAC, and probably to some degree lighting, or temp sensors....those might very well scare away potential buyers more than entice them.

Again, that's just my perspective. I wired for EVERYTHING, mainly because I could, but also because I only cared what WE wanted, not some potential buyer. I might very well have to rip out most every thing when the time comes to sell because it's too much of a liability and not a bonus. Also one of the reasons I chose ALC lighting....easy to swap back out.

 

[felixrosbergen]

wow..on the ALC/Onq Pre-wire cost...althogh i know you'd go gradually...the cost of the switches will be severe too...but I should be pretty problem free. I'm hoping that IF i were to sell the house i can leave the alarm and lighting automation in. The whole house audio head end gear (Nuvo) is easy to remove if somebody doesn't want to pay for it. But like beelzerob said, ALC is easy to swtich back...it just takes TIME.

I've never had a central VAC system so i wouldn't miss it, but for $5k you can get a lot of HA hardware.. ^_^ forget abot furniture..

 

[judge_l]

Maybe consider just having the house set up for the whole house vacuum. I installed mine from scratch. Some of it was in new construction, which was simple and some was retrofit which was not as much fun. If you have them run the pipe and wire, it would be easy later to buy the connections and motor and install them. The big shock to me was the cost of the hose and attachments.

 

[broconne]

wow..on the ALC/Onq Pre-wire cost...althogh i know you'd go gradually...the cost of the switches will be severe too...but I should be pretty problem free. I'm hoping that IF i were to sell the house i can leave the alarm and lighting automation in. The whole house audio head end gear (Nuvo) is easy to remove if somebody doesn't want to pay for it. But like beelzerob said, ALC is easy to swtich back...it just takes TIME.

I've never had a central VAC system so i wouldn't miss it, but for $5k you can get a lot of HA hardware.. ^_^ forget abot furniture..

Oops.. I had a typo.. The whole house VAC is only 2500. The other one was the whole house audio prewire. I fixed the post above.

 

[broconne]

Personally (and I really mean that), I think if you're seriously considering selling in the somewhat near future (considering cost to build vs. cost to recoup in a sale), then that probably decides a lot of things for you. Pretty much all of my HA decisions and direction right now are solely for our comfort and enjoyment...I believe they'll have close to NO value if we were to sell..which we're not even considering doing for the next decade or more.

All that to say, I'd tend more towards HA improvements that will actually boost the value of the house, AND that are easy to transfer to another owner (so, hardware is probably better than software control). So, media and whole house audio is good. Security is probably good (depending on your location). But somewhat more extended control like HVAC, and probably to some degree lighting, or temp sensors....those might very well scare away potential buyers more than entice them.

Again, that's just my perspective. I wired for EVERYTHING, mainly because I could, but also because I only cared what WE wanted, not some potential buyer. I might very well have to rip out most every thing when the time comes to sell because it's too much of a liability and not a bonus. Also one of the reasons I chose ALC lighting....easy to swap back out.

There really are no "thoughts" of selling. We think of this as our 10 to 20 year house.. Unless something bad happens, like I lose my job and need to move to another part of the country for work. Or if the schools ended up becoming bad (they are great now) and we had to move to another town for that reason.

If I had to sell, I would remove the ALC lighting and probably security panel stuff and sell it as "wired for home security system".

But like I said, we aren't planning to flip this house.

 

[broconne]

Maybe consider just having the house set up for the whole house vacuum. I installed mine from scratch. Some of it was in new construction, which was simple and some was retrofit which was not as much fun. If you have them run the pipe and wire, it would be easy later to buy the connections and motor and install them. The big shock to me was the cost of the hose and attachments.

Yeah, the cost was wrong above.. That actually is just "pre-tubing", 2 60ft hide-a-hose inlets, and 3 vac pans. It doesn't include the actually vacuum.

 

[broconne]

Upstairs hallway:
Moving from one room to the other. We are almost there folks. Only the master suite remains after this one!

H/A Equipment:
3 Occupancy Sensors
1 Touchscreen pre-wire
1 Thermostat pre-wire

Lighting:
There are 6 ALC/OnQ prewires. 3 for the three recessed cans by bedrooms 3 and 4. This will be a 4-way one by the bedrooms, one by the master and one by the stairs. Thinking is you want to be able to turn lights on/off when going into the master, when going up/down stairs and when near the bedrooms. Another 3 way for the two cans by the masters/game room. One switch on the stairs, one by the master. And one final one for the light at the top of the finished stairs to the attic.

Security:
2 Smoke pre-wires
2 Carbon Monoxide pre-wires


H/A Goals:
(1) Provide a touch screen for the hallway.
(2) Turn on lights when motion in hallway at night. Different levels based on how late it is and/or how long it has been since the lights were last on (midnight snack mode)
(3) Turn off lights when no motion for a specified duration
(4) Control of the thermostat (going to go with RC2000s)


The upstairs hallway

 

[heffneil]

I don't install HA stuff in my homes for resale value. If it is a deciding factor then great! But it really is for the enjoyment of me and my family. I can't tell you how many time I walk in at night with a handful of kids and groceries and the lights just magically come on. That alone is worth every penny I have spent! Not to mention I have a very good alarm system and my outdoor lights come on at dusk even when I am not here.

Anyway what are all those pipe chases for? Is that for the vac system? Will your builder let you do any of the installation yourself? It's obvious Level 1 is where all the money is being spent. I personally am starting to think whole home audio is overrated. I will tell you why: almost all TV providers (comcast or directv) have just tons of music channels. Sure the speakers aren't as good but get a sound bar if you care that much down the road. I doubt there is a room in your house that you would listen to music that doesn't have a TV. The only place might be outside and that shouldn't be too difficult to correct.

The one thing among many others that I wish I had in my house and it looks like a retrofit option isn't available is intercom. This place is pretty large and we can get lost BUT the biggest issue is my kids are still very young (two under the age of 4) and we still use a monitor to listen in on them. Well half the darn time it is out of range and just drives us crazy! If I had a decent intercom I could monitor each of their rooms all night long...

Maybe the next house!


Neil

 

[felixrosbergen]

broconne:

With regards to the 3way/4way switching at the upHall...from what i understand you near a light swich at evey entry to a room within xx" from the door. At least from every bedroom, not sure if you would also need it from media room, laundry etc. The idea is what you shoudl always be able to turn on the lights in the space you're walking into (makes sense right?).

Like i said, not sure if the code differentiates between bedrooms and other purpose rooms.

In my case i have a relatively small upstairs hall but ended up with a 5 way light.

 

[broconne]

broconne:

With regards to the 3way/4way switching at the upHall...from what i understand you near a light swich at evey entry to a room within xx" from the door. At least from every bedroom, not sure if you would also need it from media room, laundry etc. The idea is what you shoudl always be able to turn on the lights in the space you're walking into (makes sense right?).

Like i said, not sure if the code differentiates between bedrooms and other purpose rooms.

In my case i have a relatively small upstairs hall but ended up with a 5 way light.

Ahh - We will see how it gets wired up. I want 3 of those lights on one switch and the other 2 on another.. With any sort of automated lighting I don't want movement on one side of the hallway throwing on lights on the other side, specially if people are trying to sleep with doors open.

But, we will see what happens with code.