Can someone explain automated lighting to me?

[tmbrown97]

Insteon is a combination of wired/wireless. As I understand, the base technology is similar to X10 with some of the devices being dual-band to also send a wireless signal; this allows for RF remotes/motions/etc and bridging phases and repeating the signal with good reliability.

 

[oberkc]

I thought X10 and Insteon are wireless solutions? I'd like to prewire for any wired solutions I might consider that don't require home runs of the HV wiring.

X-10 communicates via powerline. Insteon is combination powerline and RF, but can work entirely by powerline if this is important to you for some reason. I thought you were looking for devices that require no special wiring practices based on this post:

So it looks like my options for wired automated lighting that use standard wiring practices are UPB, ALC, and possibly the Lutron Maestro line

Insteon requires neutral at all locations, but that is not unique. Otherwise, insteon and X-10 uses standard wiring practices, as evidenced by the ability to retrofit into existing homes without the addition or changing of wiring. I would also assume that Z-wave uses "standard wiring practices". No home runs needed. No dedicated communication cables.

 

[EmagSamurai]

Gotcha! So X10, Insteon, Z-wave, and UPB would require no additional control wiring. Only ALC would require CAT 5 to each switch.

Also, After reading more and posting a question over at AVS I now understand that Homeworks is decidedly not DIY. So I'll be marking that off the list of possible solutions. It's too bad, as it certainly seems like a robust system.

 

[apostolakisl]

Also, After reading more and posting a question over at AVS I now understand that Homeworks is decidedly not DIY. So I'll be marking that off the list of possible solutions. It's too bad, as it certainly seems like a robust system.

None of the hardwired systems are marketed to the DIY. Many of them won't sell or support DIY at all. Think about it. Hardwired systems pretty much require installation during construction of a home. How many people build custom homes? How many of those people have a builder who would let them do this? How many of those people would want to do this? It widdles down to such a small market that these companies couldn't make money in it.

 

[oberkc]

Gotcha! So X10, Insteon, Z-wave, and UPB would require no additional control wiring

Correct
.

 

[EmagSamurai]

None of the hardwired systems are marketed to the DIY. Many of them won't sell or support DIY at all. Think about it. Hardwired systems pretty much require installation during construction of a home. How many people build custom homes? How many of those people have a builder who would let them do this? How many of those people would want to do this? It widdles down to such a small market that these companies couldn't make money in it.

I don't know that I agree with this completely. Our builder only does custom homes and he's mentioned on several occasions that he regularly has clients that want to do some part of the build whether it's because they know someone that does electrical, or because they have some part of the house that they are particularly interested in. I think you are correct in that the DIY lighting automation is a small market, but I think automation in general is a small market. It seems like any portion of an already small market would be beneficial in generating revenue, but obviously someone has done the math and has decided it's not worth the costs, and likely not worth the headache of the tech support that would be necessary.

In any case, you make a valid point that there doesn't seem to be many options in the hardwired, DIY, lighting category other than the power line technologies.

 

[edge]

"None of the hardwired systems are marketed to the DIY. Many of them won't sell or support DIY at all. Think about it. Hardwired systems pretty much require installation during construction of a home."


.....Not completely true.......when Onq-LeGrand owned the ALC product line, it was marketed as pro, although it could be done within the DIY community. Now that the product line is owned by SetNet, it's got support of both.

The the other misconception about ALC is that a Cat 5 cable is needed for each switch--again, not completely true......most switches only use 1 pair. 3-way applications will need 2 pair.

 

[apostolakisl]

ALC isn't marketed to DIY, they just allow it. Compared to z-wave, insteon, UPB, and so forth, there is a big difference in how they capture market. SetNet is a fine store which I have bought many things from, but by no means is it a DIY geared website. If you phone them they are real nice and all and answer your questions, but the novice would be lost heading to their website, if they could even find it. It is a tough one to get Goolge to deliver. And if you notice, they require you setup an account on their website as a "dealer" even though they don't do one thing to make sure you are a dealer. They definitely give the impression that they would rather deal with someone who at least acts like a dealer.