Confused on needed Elk M1G accessories

[johnnynine]

1. How many keypads does the Elk M1G support without an expansion card? I only anticipate having 2 total keypads.

I expect to have the following:
M1XEP - for network connectivity
M1XSP - for serial insteon powerlinc
M1XSP - for thermostats
M1RB - for irrigation

2. I am confused on how the M1XEP and M1XSPs interface with the M1Gold. Do they daisy chain together or do I need a hub of some kind?

3. How does the Thermostat Interface M1XTI is this different than M1XSP? How do you know which one you need?

4. I'm confused on what the difference between the M1XOVR Output Expander and the M1RB Relay Board are?

Thanks, Johnny

 

[rcharris]

Johnny:

I believe The M1G will support up to 16 keypads. They attach to the RS-485 Serial Bus and are assigned ID numbers from 1 to 16...

The M1XEP connects as you might expect to your hoome LAN via its RJ-45 network connection. It connects to the M1G via the M1G RS-232 Serial Port (J4) When you have the M1XEP connected, then you can't connect your laptop directly to the M1G. But then you will likely be using a LAN connectino for programming. That is what I do and it is sooooo easy.

The M1XSP's connect to the M1G via the RS-485 serial Bus. (I haven't used one yet, but the on-line literature indicates it goes on the RS-485).

I don't yet use a Data Bus hub, but looking back I think it is the way to go. (The RS-485 bus is in reality a daisy-chained bus with end-of-line terminations. If you use the Elk data bus hub. it enables you to home-run two Data bus cables (think of them as the outgoing from one and the incoming to the next device) for each device. Then the connections are easy easy in the wiring cabinet.

The M1XOV has 16 outputs, all low-current (I think 40 mA) transistor outputs. The M1XOVR has 8 transistor outputs and 8 higher-current form C relays (7Amps at 28VDC). The M1RB is an expander board that has 8 high-current relays and conects to an 8-output low-current channel on either the M1XOV, M1XOVR, or M1G itself. (Nice architecture IMHO). Both the M1XOV and M1XOVR attach to the M1 RS-485 Data bus.

Suggestion: Put and M1XOVR in a can right where your sprinkler valves will be, remote from the main wiring cabinet. The run a Data Bus cable from the valves to the wiring cabinet. IMHO the beauty of the M1 Data Bus is that you can remote locate any of the major devices (keypad, Relay board, Serial port expander, Etc, etc) and reduce the amount of wiring that must be home-run. I also have my NX-416 wireless receiver located 150ft from the M1G, up hihg in the roof where it has excellent reception. That goes on a different bus, not the RS-485, but the remote location capability makes all the dofference in reception range, as my M1G can is in the basement.

I haven't heard of an M1XTI. What is that? From looking over the M1XSP documentation, it looks like that is all you need to connect to a thermostat, as long as the thermostat has a serial interface.

Hope that helps.

-Rod

 

[WayneW]

3. How does the Thermostat Interface M1XTI is this different than M1XSP? How do you know which one you need?

I do not believe that the XTI was ever released. I think the only place you will find it is on very old, outdated websites. I think the XTI was planned before they realized (or confirmed) that they could get all the serial functionality desired into one piece of hardware, the XSP. The XSP is very versatile as the stock firmware supports a bunch of devices (thermostats & lighting). It also has one custom firmware to support Insteon. I would not be surprised to see more custom versions of the firmware to support additional hardware in the future.

 

[Spanky]

Well said!

 

[IVB]

I'm pretty stoked that I got a Data Bus hub as it has made adding expansion cards and additional keypads dead-bang easy. [i didn't realize until yesterday that expansion cards hook up to the bus or serially to the main board. But as I had that data bus hub, it was a non-issue].

I actually put the main board in a 14" cabinet next to my HAPC, and got a 28" cabinet for a location (basement crawl space) that's more suited for running tons of sensor wires in/out. All i needed to do was to run the one set of wires between the data bus hub and the main board.

 

[johnnynine]

Thanks for all the details guys. I'm still a little confused on the difference between the M1XOVR Output Expander and the M1RB Relay Board in laymans terms, but I'm sold on the Data Bus Hub. Sounds like it will make things easier... outside of the agony of Cat5 crimping of course.

 

[WayneW]

The M1XOVR connects the the 4 wire elk bus and gives you 16 outputs. 8 of these are relays, which are ready to hook up to whatever you want (such as sprinkler valves).

The other 8 are voltage outputs. These are a little trickier to use because you have to know how to hook these up properly, depending upon what you want to hook them up to. They are meant to hook up to electronic circuits or low power devices such as relays. That is where the M1RB comes into the picture. If you wanted to convert the 8 voltage outputs to 8 relay outputs, just add an M1RB to an M1XOVR and you would now have 16 relay outputs. If you just wanted to convert 4 of the voltage outputs to relays, you could use 4 ELK-924 relays and wire them up yourself.

To make your RJ45 crimping easier, look for an EZ-RJ45 crimper and ends. SmartHome and lots of other places carry them. http://www.platinumtools.com/crimp/100004.html

 

[Steve]

Good explanation Wayne. The R1DB can connect either directly to the control or to an Output expander (XOV or XOVR). If all you need are 8 or less relays only then you can just get the R1DB and connect it to J16 on the M1. That is your least expensive option. If you need voltage outputs only, get an XOV. If you need voltage outputs AND a few relays (8 or less) then get the XOVR. If you just need lots of relays then get an XOVR and R1DB for every 16 relays you need. There are some good wiring diagrams which may help you on the Elk Expanders page. Also realize the R1DB has indicator LEDS which show what output is on while the XOVR does not. So if you need those LEDS for whatever reason you can get and XOV and 2 R1DB boards giving you 16 relays with LEDS instead of 8 with and 8 without (an XOVR and R1DB). Hope this helps...

 

[johnnynine]

It's time to revisit this stuff as I am *slightly* closer to making it all happen.

Thanks for the info guys as it was very helpful.

So here is my shopping list so far:

Elk M1 Gold - ELK-M1G Control + Transformer + Keypad + Battery + Speaker + RJ31X Jack & Cord (NO CASE)
M1XEP - Ethernet Port for network connectivity - connects via the M1G RS-232 Serial Port (J4)
M1XSP - Serial Expander for serial insteon powerlinc - connects via the M1G RS-485 serial Bus
M1XSP - Serial Expander for thermostats - connects via the M1G RS-485 serial Bus
M1XOVR - Relay Board for irrigation - connects via the M1G RS-485 serial Bus. If I want LEDs to see which relays are on attach an M1RB to it. The M1RB connects to an 8-output low-current channel on either the M1XOV, M1XOVR, or M1G itself.
M1DBH - Data Bus hub - TO make life easy with the M1G RS-485 serial Bus.
ELK-M1KP or ELK-M1KP2 - Additional Keypad

1. Am I missing anything?

2. How big of a can will I need for all of this? I already have a 42" can for structured wiring. And from my understanding I will be getting another smaller can which will hold the initial GE Interlogix alarm system. I have a feeling that I will need to upgrade that can?

3. Does the ELK-M1KP2 keypad have any sound capability?

Johnny

 

[IVB]

What will you be using it for? Any sensors needed? What all is going in that can?

Are you sure you don't want any zone expanders? My entirely personal preference was to run every single sensor to it's own zone, which in my case meant 3 expanders. I'm not sure if I put in one of your posts before, but in case I didn't, this is almost everything I got. I did end up buying some more stuff later, but that's already dang long and overkill.

 

[WayneW]

M1XOVR - Relay Board for irrigation - connects via the M1G RS-485 serial Bus. If I want LEDs to see which relays are on attach an M1RB to it. The M1RB connects to an 8-output low-current channel on either the M1XOV, M1XOVR, or M1G itself.

The M1OVR does have surface mount LEDS that indicate the relay status, so if you mount it in a convenient location, you can use those LEDs. I don't know why Elk doesn't document those LEDs.

 

[johnnynine]

What will you be using it for? Any sensors needed? What all is going in that can?

Are you sure you don't want any zone expanders? My entirely personal preference was to run every single sensor to it's own zone, which in my case meant 3 expanders. I'm not sure if I put in one of your posts before, but in case I didn't, this is almost everything I got. I did end up buying some more stuff later, but that's already dang long and overkill.

The Elk will be replacing a GE Interlogix alarm system which connects all windows and doors in the house plus some other sensors.

I haven't given the zone expanders much thought at this point, thanks for the reminder. And thanks for the shoppong list link, it will be helpful.

There will inevidably be more added to my list as I will be adding thermostats, software control, line out audio, etc.

So lets assume I need a can big enough for my above list, plus 3 zone expanders, any idea how much room that take?

 

[IVB]

Will the telephone or network distribution be in that can also?

 

[johnnynine]

Will the telephone or network distribution be in that can also?

Telephone, Network, Intercom, and TV distribution will be in a separate 42" can.

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

In that case, the 28" can should be fine.