Connecting HAI to Vizia RF

[padamson]

New member, tried this same msg on the HAI Forum and got crickets (no answers).  I have a 8yr old HAI OmniPro II system that I installed, working perfectly with Compose Lighting and UPB switch controls.  Unfortunately Compose has been EOL'd (and I'm running out of spare parts) and HAI cannot communicate with some of the UPB switches because I have two breaker panels.

So I am trying Vizia RF switches & dimmers to see if I can replace both.  I have a test room with Vizia RF installed and functioning Z-wave network that I configured using InControl and a Aeon USB Stick (20' from my OmniPro).  I then upgraded my OmniPro II firmware to the latest version (3.2) and attached the Leviton VCR0P Z-Wave interface to an open serial port on the OmniPro.  Using PCAccess I configured the serial port for Z-Wave and added all the lights, with their node addresses, to an open room (#11) on the OmniPro. Then I added the OmniPro's to the network. 

I tested turning lights on/off my laptop (with the InControl SW) from the same location as the Leviton VCR0P to ensure everything was in range.  Worked fine, but PCAccess did not reflect the state change (warning #1).  I then noticed that the OmniPro Z-Wave device (controller) was not responding to polls from the InControl (no big deal since it's a controller, but still warning #2).  Tried to change some lights using OmniPro via PCAccess, no joy.  Thought there might be a problem with the serial port, so I switched the VCR0P & USB interface ports, downloaded the new setup, and UPB worked but Z-Wave still did not.

It sounds as if either (1) the Leviton VCR0P module is not functioning correctly or (2) my OmniPro just doesn't know how to talk with the VCR0P.  Any tips on how to confirm one or the other?  Maybe the Leviton ViziaRF+ Installer Tool or some other App can talk to the VCR0P over a serial interface?
 

 

[drvnbysound]

What dimmers/switches do you have installed?

 

[neillt]

It's also worth noting that 3.2 is certainly NOT the latest firmware, we are on 3.12 these days.

 

[N49atv]

I'm new to HA, and can't answer your question. But why is multiple panels preventing you from using UPB in some areas? It should hop out to main service, and bounce back.

Could you not also use a serial
Splitter to send signals to two PIMs?

Or do you just want to run wireless switches?

 

[padamson]

OK.  An update on things.  My Leviton USB stick arrived today and I redid the entire network (excluded all devices to clear their address and them included them with the Leviton Vizia RF Installer tool).  et Voila! The HAI could control all the switches.  However it still did not see state changes in the network, but I think that might be a polling issue.  The bad news is the same scene issues others have observed: the HAI does not detect Scene A or Scene B just that a Scene happened.  I need to work on that.
 
@drvnbysound - I used a full mix of dimer & switch brands to test things out.  I am aware that Leviton SC's will only work with Leviton Switches and dimmers (Controllers need devices that support associations).  But I want to save money on areas that do not require Scenes, and I was able to confirm that the HAI will do On/Off and dimmer levels with non Leviton Dimmers as standalone devices.
 
@neillt - You are correct that was a typo.  I only have 3.12 firmware.
 
@N49atv - It does not bounce back from one panel to the other.  Even though I have phase couplers on the panel(s) signals do not get across the panels.  Using UPBStart I see signal degradation on the first panel, I think things are compounded by the Compose Firewalls which filter stuff and my Solar panels which generate a lot of noise.  Nothing makes it to the second panel when I plug in the UPB on the other panel I can see all the UPB devices.  Unfortunately I can't reach outlets on the other panel with a serial cable to the HAI so I can't try a 2nd UPB interface (to the the other panel) to the HAI.
 
So the good news I can replace the UPB wall switches with Z-Waves and control On/Off loads.  Full scene controll and detection is yet to be determined.  Lesson: Use Leviton devices whenever possible.
 
I'll post more information as I discover it. 
 
Thanks All
 
 

 

[neillt]

Not to crap all over this thread... but this is what makes me glad that all of my UPB (the entire house) works great.  Z-Wave still seems like a complete basket case and Zigbee products are hard to come by.
 
Hopefully the Leviton acquisition of HAI will bump the Vizia+RF integration to the front of the line for "fixing".

 

[padamson]

Clarification on my UPB panel problems: re-reading my last post, it sounds a little confusing.  Using UPBStart I can see all UPB devices on the panel that the UPB Interface is plugged into, but not any devices on the other panel.  Devices on each of the panels show signal loss, so it could be assumed that the signal is too low when it leaves one panel to be strong enough to make it back from the street to the other panel in my house. 
 
I suppose if I could plug in two UPB interfaces, one on each panel, and connect them both to the HAI, the HAI could then see all the UPB devices.  However I don't think one can connect two UPB interfaces to the HAI simultaneously, but since I can only reach outlets for one of the panels from the HAI, it is a moot point. 

 

[drvnbysound]

@drvnbysound - I used a full mix of dimer & switch brands to test things out.  I am aware that Leviton SC's will only work with Leviton Switches and dimmers (Controllers need devices that support associations).  But I want to save money on areas that do not require Scenes, and I was able to confirm that the HAI will do On/Off and dimmer levels with non Leviton Dimmers as standalone devices.

 
That is very likely the same reason why are you not getting the device status to show up... to get the status to show up instantly, you need switches that have Instant Status and for them to be "Associated".
 
Here is a table of Zwave dimmers and the various features. Notice the ones that support Instant Status:
http://store.homeseer.com/store/HomeSeer-Z-Wave-Dimming-Wall-Switch-Comparison-W16.aspx

 

[drvnbysound]

Not to crap all over this thread... but this is what makes me glad that all of my UPB (the entire house) works great.  Z-Wave still seems like a complete basket case and Zigbee products are hard to come by.
 
Hopefully the Leviton acquisition of HAI will bump the Vizia+RF integration to the front of the line for "fixing".

 
The biggest problem to me is that manufacturers seem to be able to pick & choose what parts of the protocol they want to implement into their devices.
 
As mentioned above, if the devices don't have the Instant Status feature, you aren't going to get status of the switch if used manually. Similarly, if the device doesn't support beaming, you aren't going to be able to communicate with devices such as locks or thermostats. So, you really have to know these things ahead of time, and purchase devices that suit your needs.
 
Leviton has only recently added beaming to some of their products (some resellers weren't even aware of this until I inquired), which allows them to have both features. The issue (for me) is that they state the VRI dimmers only work with incandescent bulbs, and the model they have listed to support CFL/LED bulbs is around $175. There is no way that I'm spending that much on a singular dimmer when I have 20+ in my home. It's because of this, that I'm highly considering moving my dimmers to UPB, but leaving my receptacles (which support beaming) in place, so that I can still communicate with my locks and thermostat. Unfortunately, this is VERY LOW on my priority list...

 

[padamson]

...The issue (for me) is that they state the VRI dimmers only work with incandescent bulbs, and the model they have listed to support CFL/LED bulbs is around $175. There is no way that I'm spending that much on a singular dimmer when I have 20+ in my home. It's because of this, that I'm highly considering moving my dimmers to UPB, but leaving my receptacles (which support beaming) in place, so that I can still communicate with my locks and thermostat. Unfortunately, this is VERY LOW on my priority list...

I have a lot of LED and CFLs too.  The VRI06 Levitons actually work fine with the LEDs as long as there is more than 40W load.  There is a hum, but it is very faint compared to the GE/Jasco dimmer.
 
That link to the HomeSeer page is great! I had started filling out my own table, this saves me the work. Thanks.  One feature they missed for dimmers is 'Restore to last Dim Level on Click' as I think programmable default level is 'Programmable Power Level Restore' in the HomeSeer table.
 
Tonight I will add an Aspire room to my Z-Wave network and see how that works with the HAI.

 

[N49atv]

I'm thinking outside the box here. Because I hate wireless. It should be a last resort only. Which you are near. But is there any software out here that could listen in via PIM ->PC, then transfer wifi to another PC->PIM on the other side. I know it may seem like a lot but a dedicated cheap PC on the other side may be cheaper than a bunch of wireless switches.

 

[padamson]

Yes it does seem like overkill to replace every switch in the house.  But my current plan is only to replace the UPB switches which control (via half-hot outlets) appliances throughout the house stereos, wifi, re-circ pumps, X-mas lights, attic fans, etc.  Using the HAI I can kill ghost loads whenever the house is empty. Seems anal but CableBoxes, Wifi, printers, TVs, etc all have standby loads ranging from 25-60W which adds up fast 24/7, I cut that by 50% or more by having the HAI kill stuff when we leave and having them stay off till some one turns them back on. I could do as you propose using a PC to repeat signals across the panels, but since I can get switches for less than $40/switch, it becomes a time/effort thing for the UPB replacement, its the lighting system that will cost. 
 
The Compose system should last a while, which allows me to phase in the lighting system.  I'm just evaluating the Z-Wave for lighting and seeing whether it will work, and planning to phase them in a room at a time as Compose dimmers fail and my surplus units dwindle (I loose about 3-4 devices/yr b/c power failures seem to screw them up, but I just got 5 converting room to Z-Wave).  Hopefully ther won't be a catastrophic Compose system failure and prices will go down, as a complete change for some 30 scene/zone controllers and 38 dimmers is not chump change.

 

[picta]

I'm just evaluating the Z-Wave for lighting and seeing whether it will work, and planning to phase them in a room at a time as Compose dimmers fail and my surplus units dwindle (I loose about 3-4 devices/yr b/c power failures seem to screw them up, but I just got 5 converting room to Z-Wave).  Hopefully ther won't be a catastrophic Compose system failure and prices will go down, as a complete change for some 30 scene/zone controllers and 38 dimmers is not chump change.

 
Be aware that with 60+ devices you may experience reliability issues on a z-wave network. It is one of the problems with these devices, they tend to work great during "evaluation" phase with a few devices, but as the system grows, the problems begin to escalate.  You may want to scan the posts on this forum and you'll find that people with less than 20 devices are unusually happy, but those with over 40 frequently wish they chose a different technology.

 

[jlehnert]

You don't have to poll the Vizia switches from the HAI.  Leviton/HAI made that part is automatic.  However,did you use the RF Installer tool to associate the switches to the VRCOP?  You won't get the status updates unless you do. it's associate to RS232 device or something along those lines.

 

[drvnbysound]

You don't have to poll the Vizia switches from the HAI.  Leviton/HAI made that part is automatic.  However,did you use the RF Installer tool to associate the switches to the VRCOP?  You won't get the status updates unless you do. it's associate to RS232 device or something along those lines.

 
You don't have to poll Vizia switches with Elk either. Because they support Instant Status feature, anytime they are used, they automatically report their status.
 
However, polling would be required if dimmers/switches are used that do not have the Instant Status feature.