CQC or Girder?

[IVB]

But please don't speak for what Girder and Netremote can do. Leave that to people that have experience with those applications to give their opinions.

John

John, I used Girder for 2 years. I demo'ed Girder 4 when I was eval'ing CQC. I'm not saying I'm an expert, and I'm not talking details about what GR/NR can do, but I have used it enough to say that there is a clear functional difference between the two.

Whether that difference is worth it to you or not is something only you can answer, but there is a difference.

 

[Steve]

Steve, thank you for the reply.

Unfortunately, with my schedule I will not be able to try several out to see which one I like (once I decide on one I can devote the time to learn it and adjust accordingly). I trust the knowledge of the contributors on cocoontech since there are several that have been into HA for years. I can make an informed decision based on input from those who have the been-there-done-that-experience and are willing to share it. Cocoontech is like a mechanic: when I am purchasing a used car I want that mechanic with me!

But you test drive that car before you buy it, right? My point still stands. Sure, you can talk to 10 super knowledgeable people and get 6 different answers. For example - both CQC and Mainlobby are both professional grade, excellent packages. But I could not for the life of me figure out how to make a light turn on via my Elk using Mainlobby whereas it was intuitive and easy for me in CQC. But others have exactly the opposite opinion/experience. It does not matter how knowledgeable others are or who you talk to, the only person that can decide is you. Instead of digging way deep, do a simple test. Create a simple, sample scenario, like turning on an Insteon (I think thats what you said you had?) light. Now simply try the different packages to do only that and see what is more intuitive for you. That alone should give you a good indication of how they work and what fits you best. I just hate to see people spend alot of money on something based on others feedback only to be dissapointed later. Whatever you pick - good luck.

 

[coppercox]

steve,
what i want to avoid is precisely what you describe (Now simply try the different packages to do only that and see what is more intuitive for you.)...girder allows me a trial for 30 days...i don't know if CQC allows it... regardless, the time required to install it...get it up and running to turn on a light...reading some of the manual...it becomes several hours in my opinion...I do not have that time. Once I settle on one I will devote the time to the learning curve.

i once test drove 17 different vehicles over a month before settling on one...a year later that car ended up having some quirks which weren't obvious in the test drive. Some of those quirks I found were discussed at length in an auto forum (of which if I had thought to read them back then I would have steered away to an alternate model).

Ultimately I will decide without the test drive...that is why I need the opinions of the HA "mechanics".

 

[IVB]

1) It still sounds like girder is best for you, until you get your mind around this enough to think you want something else. I'd hate for you to have buyer's remorse for a package that's so much more expensive than you were contemplating spending, and have you be irritated as a result.

2) You don't necessarily need a 30d test drive - If you can handle listening to the melodious sound of my voice for 90-120 minutes, you should attend one of the "Intro to HA" webinars. The agenda is listed below, but by the end, you'll have seen me tell CQC I have a piece of hardware, create a screen for manual control, and create automated rules to do something in response to a field change. (ie, someone flips a light switch or does something else - go do this in response). That will give you the overall flavor of how you would use CQC to create your setup, and will answer whether it makes sense to you or not. You can read up on JohnW's and other folks' approach & success with Girder/NR, and decide what you think there.

I still think it's a little wacky to even contemplate spending $700 for CQC without doing the trial, but I'm no one to judge: That's how I bought my $30K Nissan Pathfinder, my $1000 couch (never even sat on it), hell the wife & I looked at our $600K house for all of 5 mins before leaving without a disclosure packet, then decided the next day to bid on it. We weren't even sure which one it was when we came back for the walkthrough

------------------------------------
1) Overview of what I did, why I did it, and how it helped. 5mins
2) CQC Overview & Architecture 5min
2) How to physically hook devices up to an HTPC for control - 5mins
3) How to tell CQC you have devices connected, and use it to easily create and render a screen to control them in realtime - 45mins
4) How to setup ElkRP to monitor your devices 15mins
5) How to use CQC's event manager and the Elk together to perform the following: 15mins
5a) scheduled tasks (i.e., irrigation, turn off all devices at midnight)
5b) triggered tasks (i.e., turn off all devices when you ArmAway the Elk. turn on the light when you open the closet door)

 

[jwilson56]

But please don't speak for what Girder and Netremote can do. Leave that to people that have experience with those applications to give their opinions.

John

John, I used Girder for 2 years. I demo'ed Girder 4 when I was eval'ing CQC. I'm not saying I'm an expert, and I'm not talking details about what GR/NR can do, but I have used it enough to say that there is a clear functional difference between the two.

Whether that difference is worth it to you or not is something only you can answer, but there is a difference.

Well what I am saying is that just 4 months ago Girder did not have the Device Manager.. did not support the W800 and DS10's...did not have the integration between NR and G5 done.... Nr2.x and G5 have been rewritten to work together... since both were written by two companies. Before (NR1.x and G3.x) they worked together... but not seemlessly... now they are designed to work together...

Things change and things improve... my thread details my adventure with Alpha testing Girder5 with NR2.... and right now things look very good

John

http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=7106

 

[jwilson56]

steve,
what i want to avoid is precisely what you describe (Now simply try the different packages to do only that and see what is more intuitive for you.)...girder allows me a trial for 30 days...i don't know if CQC allows it... regardless, the time required to install it...get it up and running to turn on a light...reading some of the manual...it becomes several hours in my opinion...I do not have that time. Once I settle on one I will devote the time to the learning curve.

i once test drove 17 different vehicles over a month before settling on one...a year later that car ended up having some quirks which weren't obvious in the test drive. Some of those quirks I found were discussed at length in an auto forum (of which if I had thought to read them back then I would have steered away to an alternate model).

Ultimately I will decide without the test drive...that is why I need the opinions of the HA "mechanics".

I believe that as long as Girder5 is in beta there will be trial keys available... so you can test drive it past the 30 days from what I know... just as on their forum...

http://www.promixis.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16451

Also if you find there is something lacking for hardware or function you can request it and it might just get put in... I know they have been very responsive to my requests. We have a great Slink-e plugin and DS10 support because we asked for it.


If you need help there is myself and harleydude that can assist you.

John

 

[Dean Roddey]

Dean does this "fully distributed" aspect involve installing software on all clients?

Do you mean can it automatically push software out to the clients? If so, no it cannot do that. You do have to install any software on each client that you want to run from that client.

If you mean can you do all this stuff without installing any software on the client, then also that would be a no. You do have to install our client tools on any machine where you want to be able to manage the system from.

It does handle pushing drivers out to the machines where you want to load them, which is a big help since all drivers can be stored in a central repository on the master server and from any machine you can push a new driver out to any other machine and configure it.

 

[Dean Roddey]

If you have to constantly tweak your configuration and whatever else you need 'distributed editing capabilities' for then the system would not be much fun for anyone. But to say that CQC is for 'grander installs' and that somehow you feel it has real distributed networking (whatever that means) and that all the other solutions are not capable of a true client/server topology is just plain misleading. I know someone that has his work computer Netremote controlling his home Girder machine.

Here's an example... My main controller's video/mouse are used to drive the main touch screen, so it's not convenient to do local maintenance there. And I have a much more comfortable chain at the desk in my bedroom where I do my software work.

If I want to rip a new CD to my system, I can just do it from my bedroom and all of the metadata and ripped CD data is uploaded to the server. Or if I want to make some changes to an interface, I can just do it from there. I don't have to go sit in the home theater where the main touch screen is and try to do the work via a touch screen. I can do it from a more easily accessible machine that has a regular keyboard and mouse attached.

It does make a difference, and as the system get's larger, it makes more difference. And it also means that Windows' security never comes into play, so you don't have to have shared drives (other than for ripped CDs/DVDs) or open up Windows in order to do it. Everything works through our servers which control access to our data and insure that it's managed correctly and only those CQC users that should get access to it can do so.