DIY ELK M1 Install "What's that wire" Challenge

[sleeve]

The distance between the OnQ and the M1 do not permit this exact setup. The rjset's cable is too short and not worth snaking inside the wall.

What's interesting is if I consider what you're saying, you're telling me I don't need the modular jack part of the rjset, just the handy cable. This is because I've already got the jack I need in the OnQ.

If I follow what you're saying, but deliver the rjset cable's wires to the M1 using my runner cat5, I think I first need to correct a few things on the OnQ. First, the telco line in doesn't go to the line input, it is spliced to the runner. The wire returning from the M1's house line terminals is punched down into line input.

This is how I think I fix my OnQ:
1. Pull the house pair returning from the M1 off the line input punchdown
2. Break the splice of telco inbound to runner
3. Put telco inbound in its proper place on the line input punchdown, making the line input punchdown now fully straight wired from the telco inbound
4. Wire an rj45 plug using the runner cat5's four wires and the proper pins 1, 4, 5, and 8
5. Plug that into the OnQ rj31x
6. Flip the switch to off to interface with the M1

This operates on these hunches:
- You need a proper and plainly wired line input before you mess with the rj31x
- When the security interface is engaged by the switch, the hot pair from the line input punchdown is routed through the rj31x over to the M1 and if the M1 permits, the house phones receive an active line returned on the R1 and T1 wires into pins 1 and 8 on the rj45 plug
- The circuit with the security switch bypassed is line input > zones. The circuit with the switch engaged is line input > rj31x > runner > m1 > runner > rj31x > zones.

One concern I have is the second phone line once I flip on the circuit through the rj31x. Another is the relationship of the rj31x pins and the punchdown positions. It's too late for me to dig into T568A right now, but if the zones are going to work right I need to pinout my runner's rj45 plug right. Probably the part of this that I know least is how to be sure the two phone lines work in both switch positions.

Thanks for your help so far, Steve. I've been shelving the phone distraction so I could do the main job, I did all the zone wiring today including my renewed relationship with my motion sensor. Turns out the motion sensor is the 33rd wire, so I had to pair up a couple of windows since I can't justify a second M1XIN and second cabinet for one zone. I had hoped to have one sensor, one zone purity but I need a motion sensor over my home theater gear more than I need purity.

Fired the rig up today. It was a joy to hear M1 try to speak through a 15 cent siren horn in the old Ademco speaker. Swapped in the speaker from the M1 kit and the wife goes "oh great, another thing that talks. They're all going to talk about us when we're away."

M1XEP, ELK-RP and a few hours config, HomeSeer, UltraM1G, and I can move on to whole house audio or Bitwise Controls IR with HSTouch depending on mood and coin toss.

 

[Steve]

Well, what I described is what I believe is the proper way to do it. It sounds like they essentially used the OnQ strictly for distribution and there was a RJ31x jack up by the panel (not using the built in security jack). Personally I like the KISS setup and to use products what they were designed for. If you decide to use the OnQ that way you should be able to do the steps you mentioned. Put all lines of the telco in to the OnQ. This should distributes all lines to the house. Line 1 on blue pair, 2 on orange, etc. That's pretty much standard. Now, for the assumption, because the OnQ manual essential sucks is that the RJ31x/Security jack only affects Line 1. I think that's a safe assumption as that's how other modules like Channel Vision work. So, your second line if basically untouched, it just routes thru the whole house via the orange pair on the OnQ. The blue pair/line 1 would be sent to the M1 and returned via the security jack and Cat5 cable you have. The standard 568a wiring would be:

The center pair (blue and blue white) delivery dial to the alarm system. Dial tone returns on the outer conductors (brown and green white).

So, to make your Cat5 from the OnQ to M1:

Crimp an RJ45 connector on the OnQ side like this... Pin1 is far left with clip facing down and contacts away from you. Refer to a simple chart like this if needed.

1 White/Green
2 Green
3 White/Orange
4 Blue
5 White/Blue
6 Orange
7 White/Brown
8 Brown

Take your time with this a putting RJ45 heads on can be tricky. If you are going to do a bunch of them, I highly recommend the EZ-RJ45 system.

Now on the M1 side, connect...

White/Green to R1
Brown to T1
Blue to Ring
White/Blue to Tip

When this is done line 2 should be unaffected and with the security jack flipped off Line 1 should also work normally throughout the house, the M1 should be able to communicate on line 1 and the M1 should be able to seize Line 1. And then put away any other RJ31x and cable.

Oh, and after that is all done and tested, simply insert your Elk 952 at the OnQ between the Cat5 you just put a head on and the OnQ security jack.

 

[sleeve]

Steve, thanks for your patience and careful explanations. You've taken away a lot of doubt about how the OnQ might behave and I'll be diligent enough to see if a few probes with a meter confirm your instinct. It's helpful to see you agree that the OnQ should not be wired in this odd way with the splice and the brown pair on the blue input punchdown. I'm also satisfied to hear that I don't need any part of the rjset. That was my initial thought, and I know not everyone who buys an M1 has an OnQ with a security bypass so it makes sense that I leverage what I have yet ELK includes an rj31x for those who do not have one. 568A was a hunch from days gone by, thanks for confirming that is the right telephone pinout, most of my rj45 experience is with B for ethernet jacks.

I'm fairly certain, but I believe you meant to say connect white/brown to R1 on the M1 side.

I'll punch this up later today and report back. Thanks.

 

[Steve]

I'm fairly certain, but I believe you meant to say connect white/brown to R1 on the M1 side.

Yea, that's a bad typo - I fixed it.

 

[sleeve]

Actually, you meant white/green...

The rabbit hole, she's deep, Steve. Fortunately, I took the right pill. My probing continued because I found all of the house jacks except one on the blue and/or orange pairs. The one jack that mattered, that has my wireless base station for my "home" line, was wired on brown. Since all along I've never done anything to brown or orange, I've had uninterrupted dial tone throughout. This actually makes a lot more sense because I was expecting what I did to be more disruptive to dial tone than it was.

Now that I have telco inbound blue punched down straight to input, when the OnQ switch is in the bypass security position, blue is hot. So this begs the question, how is brown hot? I went back to the demarc/NID and got my answer. The brown pair is directly punched into an extension block right next to the blue pair. Brown and blue are always hot with the "home" line.

Here's where it gets funny, and I'm not above slapping myself around. Grab some popcorn.

Of course, I start by pulling brown off the NID and rewiring the "home" jack onto blue. With the garage door open, I proudly climb the ladder for the 90th time and the sunshine points out that if you stop paying attention, you can do something stupid. I find that I've got the orange pair on T1 and R1. That's great as long as orange is used on both ends, but orange is already hot from the other phone line.

So I did the rj45 plug to T568A following the pinouts you listed and also shown on my Ideal cat5 tester. Now pass that through rj31x and you get white/green in pin 1 becomes T1, and brown in pin 8 becomes R1. Or does it? Which way are you facing, and are you looking at a jack or plug pinout... When pointing the plug and wire toward me, with the tab facing down, I have brown on the left. You gave the order with the plug facing away and you have brown on the right. We're synched on that.

Of course, combining the orange to brown change and your correction, my first attempt is that I put white/brown and brown on T1 and R1. Halfway there, sleeve. Pull off white/brown, put on white/green, plug in the jack, flip the switch, turn on the M1, M1 grabs the line, phones show line in use and I get discouraged, but then releases it. Dial tone returns, hit *** and I got the M1 to prompt me. Entered a code, got in. Did a victory lap.

I don't really mind the white/green with brown combo because when I read the pinout for rj31x it says it uses 1 and 8 for R1 and T1 respectively. What's bothering me at the moment is that unless I'm confusing jack and plug pinouts and directions, I think I have T1 and R1 reversed. I have brown on R1 and white/green on T1.

Would that work but be unhappy, or would the M1 sense the reversal and light the telco seized light solid? Would the M1 be able to answer at all? Would anything work? I'm not sure if reversing tip and ring totally kills the signal or just makes it flaky.

Last, I wanted to be sure that the OnQ's intended disconnect worked, so I flipped the switch and line went in use, but pulled the rj45 also and the line cleared up. OK, OnQ instructions say to do both. Plug the jack back in, flip the switch, M1 takes the line briefly to check it and lets go, great. Hit ***, nothing. Hit *** again, and I get prompted. Shut off the M1, turned it back on, same thing. I try hitting * then ***, nope, only ***, *** works.

I come over here and update a few parts on this post from a plea for more help into an I got it, I hit *** for what it's worth, and it's responding consistently on *** now.

Any thoughts on my possible T1/R1 reversal? How about the ***,***? It cleared up, so I can write it off for now.

 

[Steve]

I don't really mind the white/green with brown combo because when I read the pinout for rj31x it says it uses 1 and 8 for R1 and T1 respectively. What's bothering me at the moment is that unless I'm confusing jack and plug pinouts and directions, I think I have T1 and R1 reversed. I have brown on R1 and white/green on T1.

What you read is correct. Pin 1 is R1 and is White/Green, Pin 8 is T1 and should be Brown. The only place this should matter is on the plug since that is what you need to crimp on. The other end is simply wired to the M1 and it is labeled. Pin 1 on the RJ45 is as you described - far left with tab down and contact facing away from you.

Not sure what the M1 may have been doing seizing the line, but when the dust is settled *** should work consistently. If R1/T1 were backwards I guess some funky stuff could happen.

 

[sleeve]

Swapped them and they're happy. Thanks for being 1-800-go-steve. My physical install is done, onward to config.