Do LED Bulbs generate noise that might interfere with UPB?
- Thread starter fcwilt
- Start date
LarrylLix said:
That is weird. I tested every bulb local stores had - clamshell packaging be damned - as well as ordered a few online - there are online stores which welcome test & returns - and settled on a bulbs I like most. I mean, why would you spend good money on a few dozen bulbs and then find out it does not work bad? It's better to test them out first.
I guess they don't want bulbs that are worn out on their shelves. Returning a defective bulb was no problem, only returning bulbs that could have been used or abused for some time...maybe years of usage.
The Borg told me it was their store policy of the very few they have on returns. Totally makes sense for lightbulbs. Anything product returned and suspect just gets donated to our Restore chain and sold to raise money.
The Borg told me it was their store policy of the very few they have on returns. Totally makes sense for lightbulbs. Anything product returned and suspect just gets donated to our Restore chain and sold to raise money.
Home Depot and Lowes both take back bulbs without a problem. I've had several Cree bulbs not make it even two weeks before they were dead.
I have a home full of UPB switches and all bulbs are LED of one type or another, and I've never had problems, but then again, i have a UPB repeater also.
I have a home full of UPB switches and all bulbs are LED of one type or another, and I've never had problems, but then again, i have a UPB repeater also.
pete_c
Guru
First LED testing here was using Cree 1 watt lamps many years ago. (more than 10 years ago).
The lamps were just a single LED on a circular heat sink. Probably the reason I like the Cree LEDs today.
Here my repeater is on it's own circuit / breakers. I just shut it off to see the different when I upgraded to using the repeater.
Upstart does see the repeater on the network and will ask you if you want to use it or not.
Relating to dynamic testing of loads / in wall switches not installed / lamp modules / appliance modules I made some stuff up to test.
Here I just move a lamp / appliance module around to different circuits on the two phases.
For lamp testing I use a old fashioned two wire socket (think it is rubber) with a two prong plug on it.
For UPB switch testing did the same except using a three prong plug attached to the switch and use an old fashioned two wire socket.
Over the last few years have added many new circuits and breakers providing much more granularity of electricity in my home.
The lamps were just a single LED on a circular heat sink. Probably the reason I like the Cree LEDs today.
Here my repeater is on it's own circuit / breakers. I just shut it off to see the different when I upgraded to using the repeater.
Upstart does see the repeater on the network and will ask you if you want to use it or not.
Relating to dynamic testing of loads / in wall switches not installed / lamp modules / appliance modules I made some stuff up to test.
Here I just move a lamp / appliance module around to different circuits on the two phases.
For lamp testing I use a old fashioned two wire socket (think it is rubber) with a two prong plug on it.
For UPB switch testing did the same except using a three prong plug attached to the switch and use an old fashioned two wire socket.
Over the last few years have added many new circuits and breakers providing much more granularity of electricity in my home.
fcwilt
Active Member
pete_c said:
OK so UPStart will see the repeater - got that.
But can UPStart tell me if any given device is, for lack of the proper term, "repeater enabled"? I understand that early units were not and I believe I have many of those.
Or is there a test that can be run in UPStart that will tell me if any given device is using the repeater?
Thanks!
pete_c
Guru
I see this in Upstart and you can change the setting when doing a communications test maybe?
Using the option to change whether I use the repeater or not didn't change the signal strength doing communications a communications test with one appliance switch in the attic.
Trying an older PCS ((WS1D) Wall Switch - Standard Dimmer)1000 watt switch (Chandelier) next.
playing with some switches. I have SA, HAI and PCS switches in place. I do not see any noise so far on any switches here.
1 - no repeater - device is set to direct packet and uni-packet - communications test shows - 33 / 63
2 - repeater enabled - direct packet and uni-packet - communications test shows - 70 / 117
3 - repeater enabled - link packet and multipacket-2 packet - communications test shows - 66 / 114
4 - repeater enabled - direct packet and uni-multipacket - 2 packet - communications test shows - 64 / 112
Testing another switch now - HAI 55A00-1 1000W Dimming Switch
1 - no repeater - device is set to direct packet and uni-packet - communications test shows - 40 / 66
2 - repeater enabled - direct packet and uni-packet - communications test shows - 87 / 114
3 - repeater enabled - link packet and multipacket-2 packet - communications test shows - 82 / 111
4 - repeater enabled - direct packet and uni-multipacket - 2 packet - communications test shows - 81 / 110
Looking for an older switch now...found a 59A00-1 300W Lamp Module ...higher signal levels than above with and without repeater.
Found a old one marketed OEM and its just labeled Lamp Module (UML-E) firmware version 04.18
Playing with car today (replacing an FSU - Hedgehog) - what a PITA it is to do this....be back...
Using the option to change whether I use the repeater or not didn't change the signal strength doing communications a communications test with one appliance switch in the attic.
Trying an older PCS ((WS1D) Wall Switch - Standard Dimmer)1000 watt switch (Chandelier) next.
playing with some switches. I have SA, HAI and PCS switches in place. I do not see any noise so far on any switches here.
1 - no repeater - device is set to direct packet and uni-packet - communications test shows - 33 / 63
2 - repeater enabled - direct packet and uni-packet - communications test shows - 70 / 117
3 - repeater enabled - link packet and multipacket-2 packet - communications test shows - 66 / 114
4 - repeater enabled - direct packet and uni-multipacket - 2 packet - communications test shows - 64 / 112
Testing another switch now - HAI 55A00-1 1000W Dimming Switch
1 - no repeater - device is set to direct packet and uni-packet - communications test shows - 40 / 66
2 - repeater enabled - direct packet and uni-packet - communications test shows - 87 / 114
3 - repeater enabled - link packet and multipacket-2 packet - communications test shows - 82 / 111
4 - repeater enabled - direct packet and uni-multipacket - 2 packet - communications test shows - 81 / 110
Looking for an older switch now...found a 59A00-1 300W Lamp Module ...higher signal levels than above with and without repeater.
Found a old one marketed OEM and its just labeled Lamp Module (UML-E) firmware version 04.18
Playing with car today (replacing an FSU - Hedgehog) - what a PITA it is to do this....be back...
UPStart can tell you if a UPB device is "repeater enabled" because UPStart can't "see" it otherwise.
First, and second generation or LATER switches DO work with repeaters. All Leviton/HAI and ALL PCS switches fall into this category. In fact, these switches are third generation or later switches.
Also, any Web Mountain switches which where Simply Automated switches with Gen 2 or later firmware support repeaters. So the only switches which POTENTIALLY DON'T support repeaters are Simply Automated switches and Web Mountain switches WITHOUT updated firmware, which are basically Simply Automated switches.
I say POTENTIALLY, because Simply Automated has told me that the "believe" many of their newer designed switches support a repeater, but I have never confirmed this. These would be Gen 1 switches with tweaks to support repeaters. I CAN confirm some recently purchased Simply Automated switches definitely don't support repeaters.
Since PCS sells a split-phase repeater, and Leviton/HAI sells a split-phase repeater but Simply Automated does not, that tells you something.
A switch that DOESN'T support a repeater will work with a repeater fine in the FORWARD direction, but its RETURN signal WON'T pass through the repeater. So UPStart can't program a switch when you have a repeater if the switch doesn't support a repeater because UPStart NEEDS two-way communication with a switch to program it.
First, and second generation or LATER switches DO work with repeaters. All Leviton/HAI and ALL PCS switches fall into this category. In fact, these switches are third generation or later switches.
Also, any Web Mountain switches which where Simply Automated switches with Gen 2 or later firmware support repeaters. So the only switches which POTENTIALLY DON'T support repeaters are Simply Automated switches and Web Mountain switches WITHOUT updated firmware, which are basically Simply Automated switches.
I say POTENTIALLY, because Simply Automated has told me that the "believe" many of their newer designed switches support a repeater, but I have never confirmed this. These would be Gen 1 switches with tweaks to support repeaters. I CAN confirm some recently purchased Simply Automated switches definitely don't support repeaters.
Since PCS sells a split-phase repeater, and Leviton/HAI sells a split-phase repeater but Simply Automated does not, that tells you something.
A switch that DOESN'T support a repeater will work with a repeater fine in the FORWARD direction, but its RETURN signal WON'T pass through the repeater. So UPStart can't program a switch when you have a repeater if the switch doesn't support a repeater because UPStart NEEDS two-way communication with a switch to program it.
That is a good point, and brings up another point I forgot to mention. UPStart detects and uses a repeater if you have one. In fact, it adds LOTS of capability in UPStart if you have a repeater. You can see the signal level at the repeater as well. But for all that to work, your PIM needs to support a repeater. Again, all PCS, Leviton/HAI, and Web Mountain PIMs support repeaters. With Simply Automated, again, its up-in-the-air, and I KNOW their older PIMs DO NOT support a repeater.pete_c said:I see this and you can change the setting when doing a communications test maybe?
UPBRepeater options.jpg
So if you want to be safe, just don't use Simply Automated things, and you won't have any problems. Some of their stuff MIGHT work also, but it will take trial-and-error.
Home Depot and Lowes both take back bulbs without a problem. I've had several Cree bulbs not make it even two weeks before they were dead.
I have a home full of UPB switches and all bulbs are LED of one type or another, and I've never had problems, but then again, i have a UPB repeater also.
Home Depot takes back defective bulbs but not disliked opened ones that have been determined to be used, here.
I have a home full of switches and all use LED bulbs. Some Cree bulbs start to flicker a bit with dimming after a few months of usge, and some cheap LED bulbs flicker a lot with dimming right away.. Other than that I have never had a problem with signals either but I have a lot of repeaters, every Insteon device via RF and powerline.
I have avoided all Philips bulbs (except Hue = mistake) after outfitting my new home with huge quantities of Philip CFLs demonstrating their poor quality attitude. I am not sure if any have survived 5 years. I can squish my Cree bulbs under my vehicle car tire if I want flat bulbs.
I have a home full of UPB switches and all bulbs are LED of one type or another, and I've never had problems, but then again, i have a UPB repeater also.
Home Depot takes back defective bulbs but not disliked opened ones that have been determined to be used, here.
I have a home full of switches and all use LED bulbs. Some Cree bulbs start to flicker a bit with dimming after a few months of usge, and some cheap LED bulbs flicker a lot with dimming right away.. Other than that I have never had a problem with signals either but I have a lot of repeaters, every Insteon device via RF and powerline.
I have avoided all Philips bulbs (except Hue = mistake) after outfitting my new home with huge quantities of Philip CFLs demonstrating their poor quality attitude. I am not sure if any have survived 5 years. I can squish my Cree bulbs under my vehicle car tire if I want flat bulbs.
pete_c
Guru
BTW; the oldest one mentioned above worked fine.
The hedgehog has been a PITA to get to and remove. It has now been replaced. Tangent pictures here.
BTW just recently had an issue with the purchase of two LED vendors on Ebay.
Both were selling the same pictured LED lamps. Both lamps arrived and they were not as described or pictured.
Total con artists though cuz they ignored my questions; then asked me to return the junk
That said I just complained to Ebay, got my money back and threw out the LED lamps (junk) I purchased.
This is now the third time in 4 months that I have seen similar on Ebay.
The hedgehog has been a PITA to get to and remove. It has now been replaced. Tangent pictures here.
BTW just recently had an issue with the purchase of two LED vendors on Ebay.
Both were selling the same pictured LED lamps. Both lamps arrived and they were not as described or pictured.
Total con artists though cuz they ignored my questions; then asked me to return the junk
That said I just complained to Ebay, got my money back and threw out the LED lamps (junk) I purchased.
This is now the third time in 4 months that I have seen similar on Ebay.
If a switch doesn't "support" a repeater, you don't have to replace it, just realize to program it with UPStart, it will need to be on the same phase as the ZIM, otherwise it should work O.K. but you won't receive status back if your PIM and switch are on opposite phases. But you CAN control it on the opposite phase.Frederick C. Wilt said: