Do LED Bulbs generate noise that might interfere with UPB?
- Thread starter fcwilt
- Start date
One more thing I just discovered about Hue bulbs.
They don't remember their settings when the power is resumed. You can set up all the coloured scenes you want but when the wife or kids turns them back on you get full power plain white.
Now you get out the mobile smartphone and reset them all to your warm white or decorator colours.
Good feature or bad feature?
MiLight bulbs and strips remember their settings. You can set up a scene and have a motion detector turn it on with all your rainbow.
I guess I'll haul the ladder out from the basement again and change that bulb to a MiLight in my 10' ceiling potlight. I was hoping...
They don't remember their settings when the power is resumed. You can set up all the coloured scenes you want but when the wife or kids turns them back on you get full power plain white.
Now you get out the mobile smartphone and reset them all to your warm white or decorator colours.
Good feature or bad feature?
MiLight bulbs and strips remember their settings. You can set up a scene and have a motion detector turn it on with all your rainbow.
I guess I'll haul the ladder out from the basement again and change that bulb to a MiLight in my 10' ceiling potlight. I was hoping...
pete_c
Guru
Around 2013 here purchased wireless RGB LED lamps with remote controls (propietary). They are still being utilized. (~ 2 years turning on at dusk and turning off at midnight or so).
That said they do not remember the settings and go to default when the power has been off and they are tuned on again.
Christmas time 2014 purchased some cheapo LED RGB lamps with a controller to replace some purchased in 2013 (RGB).
I had the same issue with the 2013 RGB lighting in that it didn't remember the RGB settings. The new cheapo RGB led lighting from 2014 did remember the settings which was a good thing.
I think that this will happen maybe soon with the Hue bulbs.
That said they do not remember the settings and go to default when the power has been off and they are tuned on again.
Christmas time 2014 purchased some cheapo LED RGB lamps with a controller to replace some purchased in 2013 (RGB).
I had the same issue with the 2013 RGB lighting in that it didn't remember the RGB settings. The new cheapo RGB led lighting from 2014 did remember the settings which was a good thing.
I think that this will happen maybe soon with the Hue bulbs.
ChrisCicc
Active Member
LarrylLix said:
This is a designed feature. They are supposed to be normal white bulbs when used with a switch. They DO remember their settings when the bulbs themselves are turned on and off, but when you use the switch it sets them back to "regular bulb mode".
This is a software feature, you can add to the chorus of people asking for Philips to change this behavior in an update. Personally, it works for me. But it could be simple for them to add a setting to the add and give users choice.
LarrylLix said:
Yep. This one hasn't bitten me in the ass yet, but I know that 2AM power blip is coming someday. It's gonna be loads of fun when the house turns on like the sun and the baby starts crying. :blink:
Although it is possible to mitigate some of that risk. I wired all of my overheads to be always on, removed the little knob thing on my table lamps, and put Hue Taps everywhere. That said, as long as power isn't fully removed, and the bulb is turned off 'smartly,' they do remember their previous state when turned back on. So far my experiment is going well, but only time will tell if this is a real solution.
The iConnectHue app is what makes this possible, too. In case folks don't realize, you can make a Hue Tap switch act like an real switch using that app. Each Tap button can have multiple functions assigned to it, so Press 1 can turn on a light (or light group/scene) and Press 2 can turn that same light/group/scene off. So in my home, the primary button 1 always controls the light group for the room - tap for on, tap again for off - and the remaining 3 buttons do other various things.
Dean has also gotten support for the Taps into CQC, so pressing a Tap button can also trigger a CQC user action. In the MBR, our button 4's not only invoke a Hue scene to put the home into night mode, but also tell CQC to power down random gizmos and lock the door. Hopefully soon I will go through and make the same button also turn some music on in the bedroom with a sleep timer.
Another fun thing you can do with the iConnectHue app is set ramp rates. I find that to be pretty useful.
Hey, you know what I just thought of? Since CQC (and other HA platforms) can see the status of the bulbs, I can create an event that triggers is *all* of my lights come on. That scenario would never happen in day-to-day living, so if they all turn on, my event can simply turn them back off using IF statements (IF after sunset, IF after 11:30P, etc ...). That way if a late night power outage screws with the lights, then can simply turn back off. I think my UPS can keep the master server running for 4+ hours.
I use the LIFX bulbs. They work well. One connects to Wi-Fi the others form a mesh network using 802.14 standard, so no bridge is ever needed. They also remember all their settings without power. They are a bit large, but they are also brighter than a standard "60W" LED light.jkmonroe said:Don't I wish. GE has bulbs that work with the Hue bridge, but unfortunately they aren't tunable.
The only one's I know are Osram and LIFX, and Osram apparently follows the HA profile and not LL, so they won't work with the Hue bridge. LIFX is obviously a non starter at $more-than-hue so I haven't bothered to research them.
jkmonroe said:
You are't supposed to use those except for some fun mood lighting! Get yourself some real HA gear, dimmers and such, will you?
jkmonroe said:
Agree. Tap is a must if you have Hue.
jkmonroe said:
I wonder, how well that works? How soon CQC notices that you pushed a button on a Tap? Since Hue has no real time API, there must be some delay due to polling the hub.
jkmonroe said:
Yep. It's not as good as Lutron's, but works in a pinch.
jkmonroe said:
Good idea. The only problem is, there will be a few seconds while lights re-establish link to the bridge, another second or two while bridge registers status of the lights, then short period of time till CQC gets a whiff of what's going on... Good thing I have a real lighting automation system - no issues such as this one. ;-)
This is a designed feature. They are supposed to be normal white bulbs when used with a switch. They DO remember their settings when the bulbs themselves are turned on and off, but when you use the switch it sets them back to "regular bulb mode".
This is a software feature, you can add to the chorus of people asking for Philips to change this behavior in an update. Personally, it works for me. But it could be simple for them to add a setting to the add and give users choice.
You in marketing? Feature?
Seriously though, as I posted "positive or negative?" Both modes have definite usages but the choice would be awesome for sure!
I find the Hue white power too dim to be that useful in my situations as most of my LED bulbs have bigger illumination capabilities around the 120-150 watt levels but then operate from my ISY HA and only get used mostly with slow ramped dimming from the power on state each day. That is two strikes against the "normal mode on" feature.
The MiLight units do have a much more powerful white LED inside but they lack the range of white temps, similar to the other white bulbs, so far. Time will tell if they can actually do it. If so ...goodbye Hues.
My gathering room looks like a circus late at nights with it's 10 different colours and some dim white bulbs too. WAF factor has been high as she actually selects that mode on the main dimmer switch for the room. It is kind of relaxing late at night to see so many brilliant colour shining up the walls. The Hues only act like small 6" diameter spots in the ceiling as they don't actually light up anything. I found this to be one of the secrets of decorator coloured lighting. Light up something, not the air. They don't have enough power in any one colour.
This is a software feature, you can add to the chorus of people asking for Philips to change this behavior in an update. Personally, it works for me. But it could be simple for them to add a setting to the add and give users choice.
You in marketing? Feature?
Seriously though, as I posted "positive or negative?" Both modes have definite usages but the choice would be awesome for sure!
I find the Hue white power too dim to be that useful in my situations as most of my LED bulbs have bigger illumination capabilities around the 120-150 watt levels but then operate from my ISY HA and only get used mostly with slow ramped dimming from the power on state each day. That is two strikes against the "normal mode on" feature.
The MiLight units do have a much more powerful white LED inside but they lack the range of white temps, similar to the other white bulbs, so far. Time will tell if they can actually do it. If so ...goodbye Hues.
My gathering room looks like a circus late at nights with it's 10 different colours and some dim white bulbs too. WAF factor has been high as she actually selects that mode on the main dimmer switch for the room. It is kind of relaxing late at night to see so many brilliant colour shining up the walls. The Hues only act like small 6" diameter spots in the ceiling as they don't actually light up anything. I found this to be one of the secrets of decorator coloured lighting. Light up something, not the air. They don't have enough power in any one colour.
Yeah, I get some grief from the old-guard HA guys for going this way, but it's a fun experiment. The wife is cool with everything so far, and likes the Taps everywhere, so I gotta get while the gettin's good. And I can't live without the tunable white in the main living space and bedroom. It changes the feel of a room enough to where I am giving this experiment a real go.
CQC knows the Tap presses immediately. I don't know how Dean is polling the bridge, or what he doing behind the scenes, but it's been solid so far. I guess we haven't really tested what happens if two Taps are pressed near simultaneously, but that's a rare case.
And I can't live without the tunable white in the main living space and bedroom. It changes the feel of a room enough to where I am giving this experiment a real go.CQC knows the Tap presses immediately. I don't know how Dean is polling the bridge, or what he doing behind the scenes, but it's been solid so far. I guess we haven't really tested what happens if two Taps are pressed near simultaneously, but that's a rare case.
ChrisCicc
Active Member
jkmonroe said:
The beauty of IP (WiFi/Ethernet) devices is they are so fast we can poll nearly constantly. WeMo can be polled at about 10-20 times per second without causing a hiccup. Hue we have set to 1 second. If multiple changes happen between the 1 second intervals, they are all detected at the next interval.
Returning to the OP once again, thank you @Frederick.
I would never have guessed that my LEDs could be the source of power line noise, but finally got around to testing with Upstart, and watched the noise go from red to zero when I turned off a 4 LED-bulb (Feit brand) fan unit. That seemed to be the biggest offender though some of my Phillips LED floods also produce noise.
I'll try either a different brand or possibly the 15A ACT plug in filter or some of the X-10 inline filters I have in a drawer somewhere (though not eager for another trip to the attic) as mentioned in this old thread.
I would never have guessed that my LEDs could be the source of power line noise, but finally got around to testing with Upstart, and watched the noise go from red to zero when I turned off a 4 LED-bulb (Feit brand) fan unit. That seemed to be the biggest offender though some of my Phillips LED floods also produce noise.
I'll try either a different brand or possibly the 15A ACT plug in filter or some of the X-10 inline filters I have in a drawer somewhere (though not eager for another trip to the attic) as mentioned in this old thread.
UPB signals are merely precisely sequenced positive or negative spikes on the powerline. UPB noise is just unintentional positive or negative spikes on the powerline. Many devices create spikes on the powerline, in fact anytime power is applied to an inductor or removed from an inductor, it creates a spike on the powerline.TurboSam said:
Different brands of LED lights use different techniques to provide the LED with the high current, low voltage that they need, and these techniques are usually trade secrets. Low cost and high efficiency are usually goals. Avoiding UPB noise usually isn't. The best thing you can do is complain to the manufacturer and switch to another brand. If you are just in love with these LED bulbs, a UPB repeater can usually increase the UPB signal, making the signal-to-noise ratio much higher. There are simple filters you can buy or build as well. I had to add one to a very noisy microwave once, but the filters may cost more than just buying a new LED bulb from a different company. (All the filters do is remove the voltage spikes, which removes both the noise and UPB signal.)
I know this is super old but I am struggling to deal with LED noise and UPB. I really don't know what to do but I've got multiple brands and multiple lights that are just killing UPB all together. There is no coincidence that as I transitioned to LED things started failing. Its really pretty crazy. I can't believe more people haven't complained about it. I don't know what a good long term solution to this problem is anyway. Curious if anyone has come up with a good strategy to deal with this years later?
Thanks!
Neil
Thanks!
Neil
You might try CREE bulbs, they have been pretty quiet for me. Also try those bulbs that are clear with the LED "filiment." Those bulbs have minimal electronics and are VERY efficient. If they work for you, you can get them very cheap from China. (But Home Depot and Lowes have them to test.)heffneil said: