Elk and zone setup

[killervette]

Can someone give me some guidance on a good simple zone setup for my house. Here is what i was thinking

Basement
Garage
1st Floor
2nd floor

Do i need to break up the floors more? As far as smoke detectors, can any smoke detector be added to elk, or should i supply my builder with ones that are compatible. I cant see spending $50 per smoke detector though. thanks

 

[Steve]

Do you mean Zones or Areas? For zones, each individual opening, pir, glassbreak, etc should be its own zone. Some people group say a bank of windows in one room as its own zone but I've never seen entire floors as a single zone. You usually ant to know exactly what door/window, etc was tripped. Also., things like entry doors are defined differently because of entry/exit delays, etc so at a minimum they should be their own zone. If you are talking about areas, I've also never seen them to that level of granularity. Usually people would make a separate detached garage or something like that an area so it can be armed/disarmed, etc separately. Perhaps it would help to understand exactly what you are trying to accomplish?

As for the smokes, Elk has a list of compatible ones but System Sensor and DSC are pretty popular. You can use either 2 wire or 4 wire low voltage ones. 2 wires are all looped together and go on Zone 16, 4 wires can be zoned individually. There are lots of threads here on the difference/pros/cons.etc. Your other choice is to replace one of the standard builder 120V smokes with one with a relay that would go to an Elk Zone. Don't remember exact model, something like a GE 350? That option is also pretty well covered if you search for it.

 

[felixrosbergen]

I think ELK's 8 or however many areas are more intended for either multi family homes, businesses with different zones (office, warehouse) or like Steve mentioned detached garages, pool houses, etc.

Unless you have some rediculously large home I would just make it all 1 area. Easier on the configuration that way.

 

[killervette]

Wow...building a new home and trying to plan for all this is overwhelming. The EZ8 only has support for 8 zones out of the box. It sounds like thats not nearly enough.

 

[killervette]

So your saying that i could get 1 ge 350 smoke detector and add it into the loop of the standard builder installed detectors in the house? So if any one smoke tripped, all would go?

 

[felixrosbergen]

The ELK M1Gold comes with 16 zones on the base unit.

Th M1 Gold and the EZ8 can both be expanded with zone expander cards which provide 16 inputs each.

Not sure on your smokes question..I'd like to know myself since i have builder installed 120v smokes with battery backup and not LV wires to them. They're all on the same 'chain' and one of them is in the basement. If what you're asking is possible (whcih i don't know for sure since you'll be mixing brands likely) then i coudl replace the basement one or add one in.

 

[bmil]

I went the GE 350 route but I had the electrician use all GE 350's. 5 of the no relay model and one of the relay models that luckily was located right next to my equipt. room (sheetrock went up before I could alarm wire for smokes). There are 2 relay models, one that activates the relay contact if ANY of the smokes goes off and one that only activates if that particular smoke goes off. So my system now has 120v smokes with 9v backup, if one activates they all will sound and the one with the relay provides a fire alarm contact for my Elk M1.

I don't know if a 350 with relay would be compatible with a tandem wiring setup of another brand?

 

[felixrosbergen]

The interconnect between the 350's is just 3 conductor(+ground) romex right? Hot-Neutral and then the red for interconnect? If thats the case i woudl just need to replace 1 smoke with a relay one...but who knows if the new one will play nice with the old...asking the supplier will get you the obvious answer i would suspect.

In order for this to be all 'legal' do need to use fire wire to conenct the relay GE ESL350 to the ELK?

Looks like one would use GE ESL350 for most locations and then have one GE ELS350CX to interface with the ELK. If you want know which individual sensor triggered the alarm (since they will start to make noise due to the tandem) then you would use the GE ESL350CC for each location. In my case i don't see the need to have ELK know which one triggered as long as it gets called into the central station.

 

[killervette]

The interconnect between the 350's is just 3 conductor(+ground) romex right? Hot-Neutral and then the red for interconnect? If thats the case i woudl just need to replace 1 smoke with a relay one...but who knows if the new one will play nice with the old...asking the supplier will get you the obvious answer i would suspect.

In order for this to be all 'legal' do need to use fire wire to conenct the relay GE ESL350 to the ELK?

Looks like one would use GE ESL350 for most locations and then have one GE ELS350CX to interface with the ELK. If you want know which individual sensor triggered the alarm (since they will start to make noise due to the tandem) then you would use the GE ESL350CC for each location. In my case i don't see the need to have ELK know which one triggered as long as it gets called into the central station.

let me know if you find out that it works with generic smokes. thanks

 

[Steve]

<Obi-Wan voice> Use the search dude </Obi-Wan voice>

Here is just 1 thread that talks about them. Seriously, there is literally a ton of info on this site and many of these things have been discussed 2 or 3 or more times in depth. Just search for stuff like 350cx or smoke detector and you will get a bunch of good stuff. Use the goggle search. Not trying to put you off, but instead of waiting on someone to try something or buying and trying yourself, you will most likely find the answers here if you just dig just a little.

It seems from previous discussions that 1 350CX will in fact work with other smokes.

 

[killervette]

Do you mean Zones or Areas? For zones, each individual opening, pir, glassbreak, etc should be its own zone. Some people group say a bank of windows in one room as its own zone but I've never seen entire floors as a single zone. You usually ant to know exactly what door/window, etc was tripped. Also., things like entry doors are defined differently because of entry/exit delays, etc so at a minimum they should be their own zone. If you are talking about areas, I've also never seen them to that level of granularity. Usually people would make a separate detached garage or something like that an area so it can be armed/disarmed, etc separately. Perhaps it would help to understand exactly what you are trying to accomplish?

As for the smokes, Elk has a list of compatible ones but System Sensor and DSC are pretty popular. You can use either 2 wire or 4 wire low voltage ones. 2 wires are all looped together and go on Zone 16, 4 wires can be zoned individually. There are lots of threads here on the difference/pros/cons.etc. Your other choice is to replace one of the standard builder 120V smokes with one with a relay that would go to an Elk Zone. Don't remember exact model, something like a GE 350? That option is also pretty well covered if you search for it.

Do you mean that all windows in the house would be 1 zone or each individual window would be a zone?

 

[gatchel]

Do you mean Zones or Areas? For zones, each individual opening, pir, glassbreak, etc should be its own zone. Some people group say a bank of windows in one room as its own zone but I've never seen entire floors as a single zone. You usually ant to know exactly what door/window, etc was tripped. Also., things like entry doors are defined differently because of entry/exit delays, etc so at a minimum they should be their own zone. If you are talking about areas, I've also never seen them to that level of granularity. Usually people would make a separate detached garage or something like that an area so it can be armed/disarmed, etc separately. Perhaps it would help to understand exactly what you are trying to accomplish?

As for the smokes, Elk has a list of compatible ones but System Sensor and DSC are pretty popular. You can use either 2 wire or 4 wire low voltage ones. 2 wires are all looped together and go on Zone 16, 4 wires can be zoned individually. There are lots of threads here on the difference/pros/cons.etc. Your other choice is to replace one of the standard builder 120V smokes with one with a relay that would go to an Elk Zone. Don't remember exact model, something like a GE 350? That option is also pretty well covered if you search for it.

Do you mean that all windows in the house would be 1 zone or each individual window would be a zone?

That depends on how you want to handle any potential problems that may come up in the future. Do you want to have to test EVERY single window for a fault of just one or two for a fault? Most set them up by the room or by the group of windows per wall in a room. Do you want to have to check every window that could be open in the whole house when the panel says "Window" or just go to the room with the zone fault and close the open window. Either way would work, technically speaking.

 

[Steve]

Zones are cheap, don't skimp on them. I like each and every window/door or any other device to be its own zone. The exception is if there is a bank of windows together (like in the same frame) I usually make that whole bank 1 zone. Many cheap alarm panel are a fixed number of zones so you have to group and combine them. The Elk or HAI you can have hundreds (just keep adding expansion cards) so take advantage of it and use them.

 

[Kevin L]

Zones are cheap, don't skimp on them. I like each and every window/door or any other device to be its own zone. The exception is if there is a bank of windows together (like in the same frame) I usually make that whole bank 1 zone. Many cheap alarm panel are a fixed number of zones so you have to group and combine them. The Elk or HAI you can have hundreds (just keep adding expansion cards) so take advantage of it and use them.

I agree Steve. I have every opening in the house on a zone. This information is conveyed to the central station, too. When an alarm goes off, they are able to tell exactly what zone was violated and relay that information to the police.

Another advantage of zoning every opening is bypass. This way you can make any window or door bypassable, allowing you to leave the window/door open and still arm the alarm. We use that often with our upstairs suite windows and sliders to the balcony. That way we can sleep with these open and still have the rest of the house armed.

Kevin

 

[killervette]

Great...i see how to do it now. On a side note, how does elk communicate with the police when the alarm goes off?