ELK/HAI UL info

You're are all right - if there is in fact a difference in how they're listed and when they're legal to use, that should be identified - hopefully as simply and factually as possible... I was just getting annoyed at how far things went from what was likely relevant to the OP.
 
I am also curious like Digger. What exactly is the certification/UL listing HAI lacks?

I have reported on the Elk and HAI systems during conferences at CES and ISC West and both have strengths and weaknesses, but given the 'high dollar' clients you tout, I'm very surprised HAI was not chosen over Elk as they have superior touch screen interfaces and aesthetic, plus seamless integration with video/security cameras, intercoms, and music distribution systems (all of their own brand).

The Elk is a great system, especially for the DIY and probably offers best bang for the buck in a security system, but it lacks a lot of the aesthetics looks that I would think the 'high dollar' crowd would want as I mentioned above.

I truly believe you can not go wrong with either system, it's just a matter of taste and budget.

As was stated a few posts down, I'm integrating a lot with Crestron and AMX via the 232, so the asthetics aren't as important for a touchscreen or keypad, however a lot of these installs contain remote keypads and arming stations at outbuildings, wine cellars, safes, etc. where touchscreens are not installed or budgeted for Crestron or AMX, so Elk's devices end up being used. I also end up tying a lot of wiegand readers to the elk for prox usage, primarily using the Indala units and I've even had a couple where the big "easy pass" units were installed. Of course, Indala is looking at a 50 bit credential vs. the elk's more common 26 bit, but inside a property, tying a 26 bit prox reader onto the bus for those secure locations in conjunction with a code is. These are also places that are engineered from the ground up, so the bulk of the automation is chosen to be done with other hardware, but for security and mid level automation, that's where I'm at. As was stated a couple of posts above, the Elk is a well engineered security panel, which is why it's chosen in my cases over HAI, which is not as attractive in the integration projects I work on, or specifically, the retro's with connections to existing hardware or infrastructure.

Both are good panels, and I'm sure most people would be happy with either and still have little gripes about either, I'm only stating what I've dealt with on the projects I've installed them, and neither is the silver bullet panel or ideal for all circumstances.

As I stated, it's a local thing that I've only experienced with 4 municipalities in 1 county in my state, which I don't believe that most people would experience, but while the listings are similar, the AHJ's were citing specific listing numbers in my specific cases.
 
As was stated a few posts down, I'm integrating a lot with Crestron and AMX via the 232, so the asthetics aren't as important for a touchscreen or keypad, however a lot of these installs contain remote keypads and arming stations at outbuildings, wine cellars, safes, etc. where touchscreens are not installed or budgeted for Crestron or AMX, so Elk's devices end up being used. I also end up tying a lot of wiegand readers to the elk for prox usage, primarily using the Indala units and I've even had a couple where the big "easy pass" units were installed. Of course, Indala is looking at a 50 bit credential vs. the elk's more common 26 bit, but inside a property, tying a 26 bit prox reader onto the bus for those secure locations in conjunction with a code is. These are also places that are engineered from the ground up, so the bulk of the automation is chosen to be done with other hardware, but for security and mid level automation, that's where I'm at. As was stated a couple of posts above, the Elk is a well engineered security panel, which is why it's chosen in my cases over HAI, which is not as attractive in the integration projects I work on, or specifically, the retro's with connections to existing hardware or infrastructure.

Both are good panels, and I'm sure most people would be happy with either and still have little gripes about either, I'm only stating what I've dealt with on the projects I've installed them, and neither is the silver bullet panel or ideal for all circumstances.

As I stated, it's a local thing that I've only experienced with 4 municipalities in 1 county in my state, which I don't believe that most people would experience, but while the listings are similar, the AHJ's were citing specific listing numbers in my specific cases.


I only had a chance to talk to one UL Engineer this morning and he is not aware of anything specific for Fairfield, CT.

The AHJ is with what department? Building Department? Fire Department? I need to know who to call.

Thanks
 
My two cents..... Mr. Del opened a can of worms now he can't prove with facts the statements he made. Maybe Mr. Del should think twice before saying something without facts, specially when there are competent people demanding a serious explanation.

Im a union (IBEW) electrician, I am no pro low voltage installer, but when I researched between HAI and ELK for my home, both systems are UL listed properly more than any other system out there. I decided to get and ELK because before they made a control panel I used their products and their quality sold me. I wanted a security panel that I could depend on and modify to suit my individual needs, ELK provides me with features that HAI does not.
HAI as an automation control has features ELK does not, security is my priority not home automation.

It comes to personal choice and features not to UL Listings.
 
It is very likely that at one time or another an AHJ could have denied an installation because of a misunderstanding about a UL Listing. I deal with that all of the time and many times the situation can be resolved by clarifying information or asking UL to step in and clarify information to an AHJ (straight from the horses mouth). Sometimes UL's website is incorrect as well and until an installer contacts the mfg they are not aware of it.

I dont think it is fair to hang anyone out to dry over this.
 
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