Elk - Low battery

[Digger]

I have unplugged the battery and am still getting the low battery warning. Whether the battery is connected or not if I recycle the M1 power it does NOT clear the warning.

Unplugging the battery will definitely give you a low battery. The M1 is looking for at least 12.5 or 12.8 V (or something close to that) when it does its battery test. You need to have a good/charged battery there to satisfy the test.

 

[jlokanis]

Did some searching and this thread seems like the best one to ask my question on. Just installed my Elk (that has been in a box for 5 years...Long story) and I get the battery low warning. It has been powered up for 2 days now. The battery reads 11.2vdc, the battery leads read 13.8vdc. The AC input reads 19vac. The unit seems to be working but I am wondering if I exceeded the shelf life of the battery or if it just takes a long time to charge. Can it be resurrected or do I need a new battery?
If new, then which one should I get? The 8Ah one I have is not listed on the Automated Outlet site. My system has the M1, one zone expander, one serial expander, 3 keypads and the ethernet interface.

thanks!

-John

 

[gatchel]

I would replace the battery just based on the age of it not to mention the voltages you are reading. It's cheap insurance. Not being hooked up for 5 years means the battery probably self discharged to a state where it may not hold any charge if very little at best.


Also, a lot has changed in 5 years. I would definitely update the firmware on your devices once you get everything going... B)

 

[Digger]

Did some searching and this thread seems like the best one to ask my question on. Just installed my Elk (that has been in a box for 5 years...Long story) and I get the battery low warning. It has been powered up for 2 days now. The battery reads 11.2vdc, the battery leads read 13.8vdc. The AC input reads 19vac. The unit seems to be working but I am wondering if I exceeded the shelf life of the battery or if it just takes a long time to charge. Can it be resurrected or do I need a new battery?
If new, then which one should I get? The 8Ah one I have is not listed on the Automated Outlet site. My system has the M1, one zone expander, one serial expander, 3 keypads and the ethernet interface.

thanks!

-John

FYI there are shortages for batteries typically used in Alarms and UPS's etc from most if not all mfg. If you do locate an ELK-1280 battery make sure you ask the date code on the battery before you buy it. I found someone (locally) selling batteries that were over a year old and asking for a premium price. I instead went with an ADT branded battery mfg by KJK in China that was only 4 months old (but a 7 aHR not an 8 aHR).

The problems seem to be a change in regulations in China for the proper handling of the lead used in the batteries.

 

[jlokanis]

Firmware is now updated. Took awhile. And I think I may have made a mistake by updating the control from a 4.x version to a 5.x version. But since I don't have any wireless sensors, I am not sure it matters. Sure would be great if Elk provided better docs on what you need to to and should do instead of the 'reference' methodology their install manual takes...

To stay on topic: regarding the battery, is it worth trying to charge it using a standard battery charger before I toss it?

Now I need to find a thread helping me make the email functions work and understand the telephone connection. I have DSL so I cannot have it interrupt the line since it would need a filter and that would kill my DSL modem downstream...

 

[apostolakisl]

To stay on topic: regarding the battery, is it worth trying to charge it using a standard battery charger before I toss it?

I wouldn't be surprised if you can partially resurrect the battery. But I would consider this a way to buy some time until you can get a suitable replacement. Five years without a float charge is not going to help any. Also, the batteries don't last much more than 5 years even if properly cared for.

 

[Del91574]

FYI there are shortages for batteries typically used in Alarms and UPS's etc from most if not all mfg. If you do locate an ELK-1280 battery make sure you ask the date code on the battery before you buy it. I found someone (locally) selling batteries that were over a year old and asking for a premium price. I instead went with an ADT branded battery mfg by KJK in China that was only 4 months old (but a 7 aHR not an 8 aHR).
The problems seem to be a change in regulations in China for the proper handling of the lead used in the batteries.

I can't say I've seen any change in the availability in batteries, and we're buying approximately 500 SLA's a month for a single site, let alone our other sites, and I've yet to see any out of date code issues....maybe you have a supplier issue.

HDD's for PC's, DVR's and NVR's on the other hand...huge shortages and cost increases.

I agree with the posts above, the battery, while it may have a "float life" of 10 years listed, a deep discharge most likely caused damage and wouldn't be worth the issues it'd cause on a panel compared to the price of replacement.

 

[Digger]

I can't say I've seen any change in the availability in batteries, and we're buying approximately 500 SLA's a month for a single site, let alone our other sites, and I've yet to see any out of date code issues....maybe you have a supplier issue.

HDD's for PC's, DVR's and NVR's on the other hand...huge shortages and cost increases.

I agree with the posts above, the battery, while it may have a "float life" of 10 years listed, a deep discharge most likely caused damage and wouldn't be worth the issues it'd cause on a panel compared to the price of replacement.

The supplier had old ELK batteries (they are an authorized distributor here in NY that I buy from) so I went with an ADT 7 aH battery instead. Elk has had problems with getting their batteries for about 6 months now. Last I heard they are hoping to get fresh batteries to distributors and dealers this month.

At work we buy THOUSANDS of batteries a quarter (probably over 10K of the smaller batteries) and we have seen similar problems getting batteries due to the problems in China where we buy direct from (we had to pay a premium and accept an unbranded version). We are talking the small 4 and 7 ah batteries not the 18 ah and above which are not used in such high quantities in Residential installs where the battery is included with the panels.

 

[Del91574]

Must be what I'm seeing, but then again, one of the companies I do a lot of work for owns a battery manufacturing company. Must be an Elk issue, because I haven't seen it with the other manufacturers.

We're in the thousands also, but then again, with 24V systems, with the smallest being 7aH and more commonly using 26aH and 55aH batteries for our panels, with the smaller ones being for NAC's and access control supplies.

 

[Digger]

Must be what I'm seeing, but then again, one of the companies I do a lot of work for owns a battery manufacturing company. Must be an Elk issue, because I haven't seen it with the other manufacturers.

We're in the thousands also, but then again, with 24V systems, with the smallest being 7aH and more commonly using 26aH and 55aH batteries for our panels, with the smaller ones being for NAC's and access control supplies.

I am seeing it with the same mfg that multiple large OEM's buy from (Honeywell Ademco, Napco etc). It has nothing to do with ELK specifically its problems with new regulations in China.

A lot of components and materials are on allocation for almost a year now. Partly regulations, partly labor issues in China, and partly companies reducing inventory.

 

[apostolakisl]

I just had to replace 4 big old 70 pound batteries for a giant UPS in my office (forget the amp hours). They are nearly twice as big as a typical car battery and bust your back to say the least. The old batteries lasted ten years before one of them melted.

No trouble getting those batteries, but I specifically purchased USA made batteries as I really felt like I would get a better built battery. The Chinese ones weren't much cheaper anyway.

Now I'm trying to figure out if I can rig up the other three which are still working to my smaller home UPS for a superlong lasting battery.

 

[catman7]

Hi all. To add to this discussion. I too have an old battery and am away from home for a month. I am asking relative to changeout battery. Best practice I would think would to turn off controller when changing battery. I am concerned with remote access via M1Touch Pro.  Will powering down M1 and disconnecting battery cause lose of IP forwarding and such settings? I would think they are not lost and I’ll still have access to M1 from distance over Android. Help!? 

 

[RAL]

Powering down the M1 will not cause you to lose any panel settings.  If you are allowing DHCP to assign an IP address to the M1XEP (which is the default config for the M1XEP), it might get a new address assigned when it powers back up.  But often DHCP will assign the same address as a device had before, unless another device came on the LAN in the meantime and "stole" it.  If you were using a static address for the M1EXP, you'll have no problem.
 
Forwarding and other M1XEP configuration should be retained. 
 
You can change the battery while the M1 is powered on.  Just be careful not to short anything out.