Elk M1 for temp security during construction -- lighting control?

[ntaylor]

Newbie here. I need help protecting my basement while I move out for four months. We have a one story + finished basement house with an ADT alarm; the first story (and the ADT infrastructure) will be gutted and a second story addition added. The basement will be untouched and will have a bunch of our stuff in it. Power will remain on. The contractor will put in a temporary locked door down to the basement since the upstairs will be open.

I'm thinking of getting an M1Gold, a few motion detectors, and the M1XEP and setting up a temporary system to protect the basement. No central monitoring yet; just have it alarm and email me.

I figure this will give me a little bit of protection and also allow me to learn a lot more about it before I go to do the low-voltage cabling on the rest of the house, so I can design the permanent install better.

My first question: anything I'm missing?

My second question: how would I inexpensively control the basement lights from the Elk so that they turn on when the alarm trips? Or am I better off just temporarily installing the Zenith motion lights from HomeDepot.

Thanks in advance. This is a friendly, helpful bunch and I'm excited to learn from you all.

 

[signal15]

It it's temporary, why not just put in the ElkGuard wireless system for now?

I would wait until you're back in the house before installing and messing with a full HA system. Plus, what if new hardware comes out before you move back in?

 

[ntaylor]

It it's temporary, why not just put in the ElkGuard wireless system for now?

I would wait until you're back in the house before installing and messing with a full HA system. Plus, what if new hardware comes out before you move back in?

Thanks for the response. I didn't explain my situation as well as I could have. My reasons:

1. I want to re-use the equipment (at least the main board and keypad); I can't afford to spend the $500 or whatever on the Elkguard and then all of the permanent equipment four months later;
2. The M1 would be installed in the finished basement, where it will permanently reside anyway. It will have uninterrupted power (though internet access might be interrupted for short periods);
3. Messing around with just a few zones and the main board several months earlier should teach me a lot and hopefully lead to a better job on the permanent install;
4. Re obsolete equipment, my timeframe is short. Construction starts in a month and I'll be back in the house in six months.
5. Since I won't be living there, the wire pulls can be very ugly and very temporary. I'll pull a low-voltage permit for the permanent system, not the temp one.

Seems logical to me, but I'm new to this. I watched the installation of my ADT alarm, and I pulled cable (and regular electrical) when I finished the basement, so I'm reasonably handy, but never installed an alarm.

 

[metroman]

Well, with the m1g, you could just add a cheap 5xx X10 controller on to it and add a rule, then add a cheap X10 switch to complete the setup... cost $30-50

Or, you could splurge on the UPB interface, get a UPB switch and add the rule... I am sure you will go UPB in your house in the end, so nothing is wasted there... cost $90-180

Or, finally, just use a 12v to 120v Relay to control you lights using an on board output or the relay that is there, and use a rule on that, cheap, easy, and cost? About $7

Let us know!

 

[cornutt]

Extreme renovation! Please keep us updated on how it's going.

I think putting in the M1 now, given that the space it's to go into is available, is an excellent idea. And yes, it's a great way to learn as you go. That's what I was hoping to do originally with our house, but we had a cash crunch and I wasn't able to purchase the controller until this year.

Instead of motion detectors, you might want to go ahead and wire in contacts for the basement doors and windows. I'd start by running a temporary, exposed circuit across the basement to the door leading up. Since they are going to be demo'ing your main floor, don't run the circuit through there yet. Wait until after re-framing is done. Then you can take out the temporary circuit and re-route it up through the basement ceiling and through the walls of the main floor.

Be planning now for what low voltage circuits you will want to run. Once the framing is done, your time window before the drywall goes up will be short. You will need to work fast, which means you will need to have a plan. You will have enough to think about while you're pulling wire without having to make decisions about where devices and sensors are supposed to go.

 

[drvnbysound]

5. Since I won't be living there, the wire pulls can be very ugly and very temporary. I'll pull a low-voltage permit for the permanent system, not the temp one.

Depending on your level of experience and comfort with the alarm installation, Id definitely check on the requirements for the permit. In a lot of cases, you being the homeowner, and assuming you are doing the installation yourself, may not be required to pull (and thus pay for) a permit.

I certainly found this to be the case in my area. When purchasing the home, an in-construction spec house, the builders realtor had a fit when he found out that I was going to be doing an alarm and practically forced me to pull the permit. Later, after installation, when the inspector came out, he told me 1) that I definitely did not have to pull the permit for it, and 2) all he checked for was the ensure the transformer to power the alarm was not inside the structured panel - $50 for all of 45 seconds. Certainly not A LOT of money wasted, but it was definitely wasted nonetheless and could have been spent elsewhere.

 

[ntaylor]

Thanks all! Helpful stuff.

Well, with the m1g, you could just add a cheap 5xx X10 controller on to it and add a rule, then add a cheap X10 switch to complete the setup... cost $30-50

Or, you could splurge on the UPB interface, get a UPB switch and add the rule... I am sure you will go UPB in your house in the end, so nothing is wasted there... cost $90-180

What about splitting the baby with Insteon? I was thinking about getting the Insteon / M1G bundle from Smarthome. I think I'm too new to post the link, but it bundles the ELK-M1GSYS4S, M1XEP, the ISY-99i, and INSTEON Powerlinc modem for $811. I'm clueless about the latter two components, but the price seems less than the separately buying the first two under any published prices I've seen. I've seen what's written around here about Smarthome, and I'd certainly contact others re price match, but it seems like a screaming deal. Long term, I think we will be very slow with lighting control because: 1) money; and 2) my wife just wants things to "work" -- she's fine with my tinkering until it interferes with her ability to use something. All that to say, if this bundle is a good deal and I can get a $45 Insteon wall-switch, would that work too (coupled with the above bundle)?

My downstairs door is already hard wired to the ADT, and I may be able to re-run the wires before demo. The only window that is big enough for an intruder has something I've not yet seen mentioned on this board -- a security screen with a wire going through it, a magnet switch, and a wireless transmitter. The ADT guy said if anyone cuts the screen, it interrupts the current. If they tamper with the screen, the magnet switch goes off. Something must be wrong with this concept from a security standpoint, because from a functionality standpoint it is awesome. Together with screens on my main floor, we can crack open windows in the summer without needing to bypass or trigger the alarm, but if the screen gets tampered with it, alarm goes off. My guess is that I could replace the wireless transmitters with something compatible, but I'd love to get some feedback on those screens if anyone has any.

 

[nick_l]

Newbie here. I need help protecting my basement while I move out for four months. We have a one story + finished basement house with an ADT alarm; the first story (and the ADT infrastructure) will be gutted and a second story addition added. The basement will be untouched and will have a bunch of our stuff in it. Power will remain on. The contractor will put in a temporary locked door down to the basement since the upstairs will be open.

Since others gave you good advice on an alarm, I'm going to go in another direction:


Four months? What is that an estimate for? Demo? Demo and build? Demo, build and finish? This seems like an awfully short time period to me.

What are you going to be doing to allow the contractors access to the basement? How will you keep your belongings safe when they are down there running new electrical to the pannel, turning off the water at the meter, tapping into the main plumbing stack, etc.

What contingencies have you made for the possibility of water damage. I've heard of several remdel/floor additions where bad weather allowed major amounts of water into an unprotected home (remember, you wont have a roof for at least several days!).

Have you checked with your insurance agent to make sure you belongings will be covered under this situation?

Personally, I'd be looking into getting some portable storage containers (eg. PODS) for your belongings and just leaving the contractors in control of the property.


Nick

 

[signal15]

+1 for the PODS. Load your stuff into them and let them take them back and store them in a heated and secure warehouse. There's another one called WolfPack or something similar which are much cheaper.

Or you could just get a paintball auto-sentry and fill it with pepper balls:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxBa5bQfTGc

 

[Steve]

The only window that is big enough for an intruder has something I've not yet seen mentioned on this board -- a security screen with a wire going through it, a magnet switch, and a wireless transmitter. The ADT guy said if anyone cuts the screen, it interrupts the current. If they tamper with the screen, the magnet switch goes off. Something must be wrong with this concept from a security standpoint, because from a functionality standpoint it is awesome. Together with screens on my main floor, we can crack open windows in the summer without needing to bypass or trigger the alarm, but if the screen gets tampered with it, alarm goes off. My guess is that I could replace the wireless transmitters with something compatible, but I'd love to get some feedback on those screens if anyone has any.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with them from a security standpoint. IMHO I think they are not as popular because of the cost. You will spend at least $40 per window vs $2 for a contact. I've had them on my house for 18 years and the sun has finally made them brittle enough where I am going to replace them soon. But they work great. You just need to have some sort of backup like a vibration sensor, PIR or glassbreak in case someone breaks out the top pane and climbs through somehow. I've mention them a few times, here is one example.

 

[signal15]

I wish someone would make a beam sensor that used a green laser. Having a visible laser "webbing" in each window would certainly be a deterrent, and it would look awesome. Have a laser and sensor, and then little 45 degree mini prisms that you mount in the window frame all the way up to get your "webbing."

My 5mw green lasers have a brightly visible beam with no smoke/fog at night. My 150mw green lasers have a visible beam in a *lighted* room and will put dots on clouds. :blush:

 

[cornutt]

I wish someone would make a beam sensor that used a green laser.

Some thief breaking in would get an eye injury, and then the maker would be sued. :blush:

 

[signal15]

I wish someone would make a beam sensor that used a green laser.

Some thief breaking in would get an eye injury, and then the maker would be sued. :blush:

A 5mw green laser won't injure an eye unless the IR filter is leaky and it's spewing out a ton of IR light. Green lasers are actually IR lasers, and the IR light goes through a frequency doubling crystal to bring it down into the visible range. The crystals leak IR, so most green lasers have an IR filter after the crystal to prevent this from getting out, as it could be much more than the 5mw limit for consumer lasers. Some of the lasers I have do not have an IR filter on them, and I can burn through black electrical tape and plastic bags, or pop balloons across the room.

I've been hit in the eye with a 5mw laser before, and last week when I went in for an eye appt, I had them specifically look for laser damage. There was none. In any case, a solid state laser diode probably won't last very long when left on for long periods of time like that. I keep planning on hooking one up and leaving it on to see how long it takes for it to die.

 

[ntaylor]

What about splitting the baby with Insteon? I was thinking about getting the Insteon / M1G bundle from Smarthome. I think I'm too new to post the link, but it bundles the ELK-M1GSYS4S, M1XEP, the ISY-99i, and INSTEON Powerlinc modem for $811. I'm clueless about the latter two components, but the price seems less than the separately buying the first two under any published prices I've seen. I've seen what's written around here about Smarthome, and I'd certainly contact others re price match, but it seems like a screaming deal. Long term, I think we will be very slow with lighting control because: 1) money; and 2) my wife just wants things to "work" -- she's fine with my tinkering until it interferes with her ability to use something. All that to say, if this bundle is a good deal and I can get a $45 Insteon wall-switch, would that work too (coupled with the above bundle)?

Any feedback on this combo? Seems like a good deal.

Four months? What is that an estimate for? Demo? Demo and build? Demo, build and finish? This seems like an awfully short time period to me.

What are you going to be doing to allow the contractors access to the basement? How will you keep your belongings safe when they are down there running new electrical to the pannel, turning off the water at the meter, tapping into the main plumbing stack, etc.

What contingencies have you made for the possibility of water damage. I've heard of several remdel/floor additions where bad weather allowed major amounts of water into an unprotected home (remember, you wont have a roof for at least several days!).

Have you checked with your insurance agent to make sure you belongings will be covered under this situation?

Personally, I'd be looking into getting some portable storage containers (eg. PODS) for your belongings and just leaving the contractors in control of the property.

Good thoughts. The footprint of the house won't change and isn't very big (~800 square feet). The contractor is finishing up two similar jobs with mutual friends and he flies. I've seen his work and I've known him for 17 years. I've checked with my homeowners insurer and will buy a course of construction endorsement that will cover everything even though the house will be vacant. I have a detached garage where I can store some stuff, and I can segregate the plumbing stack / electrical in the basement from the rest of it where I'll store the rest. But since I'm getting the alarm anyway, I would like to put it to use and get a little more peace of mind during construction. Not as to the contractor and his crew (whom I trust completely), but for night time when they're off the site.

 

[signal15]

If you're going to get an internet connection there, you should consider getting some network cams and feed the video offsite.